O so you already knew ISRAEL was the son ? Not judging by your response.Well, God speaking through me. I wonder how come He did that? I, not being an Israelite?
"Of course it ( SHE) existed before Jesus existed "
I rest my case. Anyway. We have no proof Jesus existed. God NEVER uttered a word about him. Besides whether the word existed before wisdom or not is irrelevant to the point I was making. Remind you God never spoke about a word so imo that's neither here nor there.
Anyway none of you find it strange God never spoke of this savior.
All these great things were spoken about Wisdom, David, Michael, even Satan made a few appearances......but no mention of this great savior sun/son ?
Filed under things that make you go hmmm ?
Also thanks for pointing out to fellow Christians that the " word" and Jesus are two different things.
As you put it " of course it ( she/wisdom ) existed before Jesus, but did she exist before the word"
Signifying that Jesus allegedly came after the word and wisdom. If he came lol. I know he didn't come but one step at a time for the Christians. Very telling.
Now let's continue with the timeline...
"Of course it ( SHE) existed before Jesus existed "
I rest my case. Anyway. We have no proof Jesus existed. God NEVER uttered a word about him. Besides whether the word existed before wisdom or not is irrelevant to the point I was making. Remind you God never spoke about a word so imo that's neither here nor there.
Anyway none of you find it strange God never spoke of this savior.
All these great things were spoken about Wisdom, David, Michael, even Satan made a few appearances......but no mention of this great savior sun/son ?
Filed under things that make you go hmmm ?
Also thanks for pointing out to fellow Christians that the " word" and Jesus are two different things.
As you put it " of course it ( she/wisdom ) existed before Jesus, but did she exist before the word"
Signifying that Jesus allegedly came after the word and wisdom. If he came lol. I know he didn't come but one step at a time for the Christians. Very telling.
Now let's continue with the timeline...
Why are you christian if you are/could be Israel?I know you and KM think YOU are Israel. You could be, but so could I.
Thats wishful thinking that those who held the land the longest are of the truth, but nothing in the bible (or Quran I would assume) suggests that.and if all of that was merely for nothing, it just happens that muslims have held Jerusalem (that important city in the bible) longer than the jews and christians did, combined. If you really do believe in the bible, you'd know what can't have happened if islam was a false religion.
it's just symbolic terminologyO so you already knew ISRAEL was the son ? Not judging by your response.
I still don't think you know ???
You don't even have knowledge of the nature of causality so your entire point fails.
Before God created the world, the divine decree was created...it's a bit like a computer program where the code is written before the program is run.
Your point is a little bit like saying, the code is greater than arguably the most important character in the program. Even though the program was created FOR the character(s).
In the case of Jesus Christ, not only are there very many scaringly accurate prophecies about him (one of my most fav being Wisdom chapters 1-3)...his life and the religion based on him is a testament to what he was. He's basically the most important/famous man to have ever lived.
As for GOD 'uttering' something about him, aside from the bible, i'm a muslim who obviously believes 100% in the Quran not only as the God's revelation, but His final and most complete revelation.
The Quran commemorates his life and confirms exactly who he was.
...
and if all of that was merely for nothing, it just happens that muslims have held Jerusalem (that important city in the bible) longer than the jews and christians did, combined. If you really do believe in the bible, you'd know what can't have happened if islam was a false religion.
There are plenty of prophecies about him, they're scaringly accurate. My fav one is Wisdom 1-3.....how ironic.
O so you already knew ISRAEL was the son ? Not judging by your response.
I still don't think you know ???
I should not write so facetiously, but it IS a valid question, dear Yahda
Lest we forget that God still loved the Gentiles, and communication with them is recorded in the Old Testament. The Gentiles did not receive the law of Moses, but were held accountable by what we call our conscience. Remember, Adam and Eve were created in the image of God and were NOT "Jews" or Israelites.
Paul (your favorite!) states this in Romans 2:14-15
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
You're obviously just saying this for the sake of saying it, when you know full well Jerusalem is the epicenter of the entire old testament story...and that story revolves around faith and righteousness.Thats wishful thinking that those who held the land the longest are of the truth, but nothing in the bible (or Quran I would assume) suggests that.
That is unfortunate that you don't always follow links that have been suggested for you, since you seem genuinely interested in the topic. If you are time limited for whatever reason that is perfectly understandable though.So in other words you can't give me the scriptures from the OT ?
Anyway. All I found was a bunch of misconceptions. We have already provided enough evidence that Daniel was not in reference to Jesus, nor when the OT mentions a messiah or anointed one is it referring to him. David was anointed. There was a few messiah's...like come on.
Btw I don't usually follow links, nor do I post them. I don't post or watch videos. Nor do I trust the work of so called scholars, nor do I need to read 3 page post...or anything of that nature.
The truth is simple and it comes from your heart. You should be able to put into words what you think or feel. You should be able to give me scriptures. I shouldn't have to click links and read others work...
That's our problem now.
Im not saying this just to say it. Im saying that YOU are the one that says the ones who hold the land the longest are the most righteous. God never said that in the bible, and that sentiment to my knowledge is never shared in the quran.You're obviously just saying this for the sake of saying it, when you know full well Jerusalem is the epicenter of the entire old testament story...and that story revolves around faith and righteousness.
You don't need a bit of scripture to specifically spoonfeed you the obvious fact that Jerusalem's long term posessers are always going to the ones considered most righteous in the eyes of God.
That is unfortunate that you don't always follow links that have been suggested for you, since you seem genuinely interested in the topic. If you are time limited for whatever reason that is perfectly understandable though.
So you often dismiss work of scholars? That is very unfortunate for someone who appears to value knowledge highly. That viewpoint is a polar opposite to mine. I believe people who have studied and researched material for years know way more than I do, therefore their material is of much higher value. Personal gut feelings are not always reliable after all.
I also tend to glance over walls of text on blogs and forums. I prefer to see links to proper information sources to reach my own conclusions.
What I believe? I believe Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies exactly. That the bible is the inspired Word of God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Not wisdom personified, that is referring to Jesus himself.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Was Daniel or Michael ever called the above highlighted words?
One thing I have already noticed is that on this forum it appears some people have told themselves because the New Testament doesn't make sense to you, it therefore isn't true. They then avoid mentioning the New Testament completely because they have already decided that it cannot be trusted at all. They have faith in their own understanding.
Hey, thanks for the extra verses! Yahda asked for one, so I filled in the missing blank!Why are you christian if you are/could be Israel?
Hey, thanks for the extra verses! Yahda asked for one, so I filled in the missing blank!
I am Christian because God has revealed Yeshua to me. Here is another verse from OT for Yahda,
When Shadrach, Meshach and Abedneggo were in the fiery furnace, a fourth "man" was seen alongside them.
Here is the exciting verse:
Dan. 3:25
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
Halleluyah!
Book of Isaiah was written in the 8th century BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_IsaiahThat's every thing said about David, the root of Jesse, a child from Bethlehem Isaiah 11:1,11:10, 1st Samuel 17:12, psalms 78:71, 89:26-36.....
Book of Isaiah was written in the 8th century BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah
Kind David lived in 10th century BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David
That is 2 centuries BEFORE Isaiah.
Prophecies are foretellings of FUTURE events. Prophets are NOT historians.