‘Transgender’ Could Be Defined Out of Existence Under Trump Administration

[Colonel Valerio]

It’s funny when fundamentalists spout off about biology and what not, like ya give a fuck about science.

 

[mecca]

It makes no sense to pretend like an entire group of people just doesn't exist even though they do exist and are a part of human society. Even if you don't understand or support transgender people, why would you think it's okay to allow discrimination against innocent people? Why is it okay to take away their civil rights?

 

[VigCizMember]

So what happens to hermaphrodites?....Will they just toss a coin or just be shot?

Well since we've always shot them they'll probably go back to that *puh-lease* nice leading question there...

 

[VigCizMember]

It makes no sense to pretend like an entire group of people just doesn't exist even though they do exist and are a part of human society. Even if you don't understand or support transgender people, why would you think it's okay to allow discrimination against innocent people? Why is it okay to take away their civil rights?

They have rights to think whatever they want and pretend to be whatever they want - but reality is what's at stake here, and forcing people to engage in someone's delusion is not healthy for society nor is it healthy for the subject. They should get the proper mental health treatment they need - cutting up and reassembling body parts does not a new gender make.

 

[Corvus Metus]

I think you are missing the point. I do not care what anyone personally identifies as, but I do resent and refuse to be a part of their delusion by calling them a dog if they see themselves as one. Do as you please, but there are men and women and those which are confused. I refuse to be a part of the circus of mental instability or freaky sexual labels. I do not care if someone id's as a woman one day and a man the next, but don't expect normal, grounded people to play along.
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Let's play a game of pretend.

Imagine for a moment, you're working as a cashier at your local grocery store. For the sake of this particular scenario, it's a mom and pop shop owned by someone who doesn't care how you treat customers or even if he'd lose his business. He just opened this grocery store because he's rich and bored.

Someone approaches you. They look like a dude in a dress. It's Halloween tonight so there's a chance they might be just dressing up for a costume party. You right up their order and say, "that'll be 10.95, sir". They look at you for a moment and begin to write out a check and reply with a simple comment. "I'm a woman". It still sounds like a ma.

How do you react?

I'd like an actual response if you could be so kind since I am going somewhere with this.

 

[Etagloc]

They have rights to think whatever they want and pretend to be whatever they want - but reality is what's at stake here, and forcing people to engage in someone's delusion is not healthy for society nor is it healthy for the subject. They should get the proper mental health treatment they need - cutting up and reassembling body parts does not a new gender make.

Honestly, man, my agreement with the last part is not even being against them or anything.... it's for their own well-being that I don't want their bodies to be mutilated.... what happens if they regret it??

 

[Etagloc]

The answer is that people need to accept who they are and accept who they are as God made them. Helping to promote a mental disorder is not caring. Caring would be telling the truth.

 

[Devine]

It’s funny when fundamentalists spout off about biology and what not, like ya give a fuck about science.

they might as long as it doesn't cross paths with their beliefs. dinosaurs, no. trans, yes.

 

[Devine]

They have rights to think whatever they want and pretend to be whatever they want - but reality is what's at stake here, and forcing people to engage in someone's delusion is not healthy for society nor is it healthy for the subject. They should get the proper mental health treatment they need - cutting up and reassembling body parts does not a new gender make.

yes and i don't think we have the time money or resources to indulge everyones' fantasies. the paperwork alone i mean holy cow

 

[mecca]

They have rights to think whatever they want and pretend to be whatever they want - but reality is what's at stake here, and forcing people to engage in someone's delusion is not healthy for society nor is it healthy for the subject. They should get the proper mental health treatment they need - cutting up and reassembling body parts does not a new gender make.

Transgender people are losing rights and are not being protected from discrimination, that is not socially healthy. A healthy society would treat people equally and not dehumanize groups of the population. A healthy society is one that is socially cohesive... where transgender people can be safe and live happy lives and be treated respectfully as human beings instead of being attacked or treated as lesser for who they are.

The proper (scientifically determined) treatment for gender dysphoria is some level of transitioning that is tailored to the needs of the individual... sometimes that includes surgical transitioning. Transitioning doesn't make them into a new gender, it allows their body to match the innate sense of gender they already had. Being transgender isn't a delusion, they are grounded and understand who they are. Delusions are not a diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria either.

Transgender people are not pretending. Gender dysphoria is a real and scientifically recognized phenomenon that some people experience... it is a part of our reality as human beings. Recognizing and accepting this fact allows you to have a greater understanding of reality... it doesn't take you away from reality.

No one is being forced to do anything. Letting transgender people live their lives in peace doesn't have to be difficult or be made into a problem... everyone can just go about their lives.

 

[Aero]

How brave of you all for not wanting to be forced to live in a delusion.

I'll be waiting for you to go call all of your bosses idiots.

 

[Rodreezus]

.

The proper (scientifically determined) treatment for gender dysphoria is some level of transitioning that is tailored to the needs of the individual... sometimes that includes surgical transitioning. Transitioning doesn't make them into a new gender, it allows their body to match the innate sense of gender they already had. Being transgender isn't a delusion, they are grounded and understand who they are. Delusions are not a diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria either.

I agreed with everything you said but this. I don’t believe the proper treatment for gender dysphasia is gender reassignment. The literature on this indicate the same, or higher rates of suicide among transgender individuals after sexual reassignment surgery. The procedure doesn’t solve their problems. IMO it’s akin to pretending to see your schitzophrenic neighbor’s delusions.

I agree that their feelings are real, but the push towards acceptance into the mainstream is a real problem. Live and let live, I’m cool with that. When you start to force your beliefs on me, force me to teach my children that gender is fluid, we have a problem.

 

[The Zone]

It’s funny when fundamentalists spout off about biology and what not, like ya give a fuck about science.

There are plenty of non-religious people who have no issue with two sexes and some anomalies. You can oh so be a man or women and be gay, but your brain does not change your chromosomes.

Let's play a game of pretend.

Imagine for a moment, you're working as a cashier at your local grocery store. For the sake of this particular scenario, it's a mom and pop shop owned by someone who doesn't care how you treat customers or even if he'd lose his business. He just opened this grocery store because he's rich and bored.

Someone approaches you. They look like a dude in a dress. It's Halloween tonight so there's a chance they might be just dressing up for a costume party. You right up their order and say, "that'll be 10.95, sir". They look at you for a moment and begin to write out a check and reply with a simple comment. "I'm a woman". It still sounds like a ma.

How do you react?

I'd like an actual response if you could be so kind since I am going somewhere with this.

So, you want me to play a what-if scenario and one with a lot of just so happen details? Firstly, who on earth writes a check anymore? While I am using common sense, I will add that if they were writing a check I would look at their name on the check before saying, mam or sir. Also, if I had any doubt I would not say any noun. I mean, what if they identified as one of the other letters extend from LGBTQ and I insulted them?

The point I think you fail to see is if something is confusing, then maybe there is a reason, for our natural take on a situation (and the emphasis is on the word natural) is not necessarily wrong. Also, if people were playing dress up on Halloween then the average person would likely say, wow, what a good job I did on my costume to fool you.

I once called a women sir in a fast food line and then said sorry. She/he said that's okay I actually like it. Do not blame everyday people in being confused if others are or for us to somehow know in every case they identify as whatever.

 

[mecca]

I agreed with everything you said but this. I don’t believe the proper treatment for gender dysphasia is gender reassignment.

I'm sorry but it's simply not a matter of belief. It is a proven scientific fact that transitioning is the treatment that truly works to alleviate gender dysphoria. It has been tested many times and shown to be true.

And transitioning doesn't have to include any reassignment surgery by the way... some people only require changing their name, pronouns, and the way that they dress to manage their dysphoria. But that's still a form of transitioning.

The literature on this indicate the same, or higher rates of suicide among transgender individuals after sexual reassignment surgery.

No, it actually does not... that is a common myth that is spread to discredit transgender people. In actuality, after transitioning the suicide rate levels out to be equal with the cisgender population. Transitioning always lowers the suicide rate, it has simply never been shown to increase it. If the suicide rate was increased by this treatment then no one would seek it or recommend it, but they do... the only reason that transitioning is the proper treatment is because it actually works. It saves lives.

IMO it’s akin to pretending to see your schitzophrenic neighbor’s delusions.

No... delusions aren't connected to being transgender.

 

[Aero]

I've tried to do a lot for the transgender community. And I still get treated like shit by the little liberals. But I still empathize.

The problem is private companies should be able to hire whoever they want. This has nothing to do with delusions. It has everything to do with personal liberties.

I mean if most of us get turned down for a job we cant argue discrimination. We are just shit out of luck. So its a slippery slope and there isnt an easy answer.

 

[Rodreezus]

No, it actually does not... that is a common myth that is spread to discredit transgender people. In actuality, after transitioning the suicide rate levels out to be equal with the cisgender population. Transitioning always lowers the suicide rate, it has simply never been shown to increase it. If the suicide rate was increased by this treatment then no one would seek it or recommend it, but they do... the only reason that transitioning is the proper treatment is because it actually works. It saves lives.

https://www.heritage.org/gender/commentary/sex-reassignment-doesnt-work-here-the-evidence

When ‘the tumult and shouting dies,’ it proves not easy nor wise to live in a counterfeit sexual garb. The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over 30 years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest. Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers.


[The Aggressive Research Intelligence Facility], which conducts reviews of health care treatments for the [National Health Service], concludes that none of the studies provides conclusive evidence that gender reassignment is beneficial for patients. It found that most research was poorly designed, which skewed the results in favor of physically changing sex. There was no evaluation of whether other treatments, such as long-term counseling, might help transsexuals, or whether their gender confusion might lessen over time.

 

[justjess]

The hiring process is one thing and there’s already typically nothing you can do about it because they don’t have to have a reason for not hiring you...

but being fired from a job you already have because they find out your gay, lesbian, trans, disabled or the wrong religion is quite another.

 

[Corvus Metus]

So, you want me to play a what-if scenario and one with a lot of just so happen details? Firstly, who on earth writes a check anymore? While I am using common sense, I will add that if they were writing a check I would look at their name on the check before saying, mam or sir. Also, if I had any doubt I would not say any noun. I mean, what if they identified as one of the other letters extend from LGBTQ and I insulted them?

The point I think you fail to see is if something is confusing, then maybe there is a reason, for our natural take on a situation (and the emphasis is on the word natural) is not necessarily wrong. Also, if people were playing dress up on Halloween then the average person would likely say, wow, what a good job I did on my costume to fool you.

I once called a women sir in a fast food line and then said sorry. She/he said that's okay I actually like it. Do not blame everyday people in being confused if others are or for us to somehow know in every case they identify as whatever.

The bold part is the answer I wanted.

If you were in a public situation and you misgendered someone, you'd apologize. Whether they were a transwoman or just a masculine-looking woman. Since that's what a normal, grounded thing to do. Since otherwise, you'd causing unnecessary conflict; the opposite of normal and grounded.

I don't think anyone cares if you think a transperson is actually the gender that they believe they are but if you're dealing with them, you're not likely not going to get on your soapbox since you know that it's rude. And that's all people need; basic respect.

 

[mecca]

The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over 30 years and conducted in Sweden

I've already gone over this very topic multiple times on this forum. The Sweden study never once states that the transgender suicide rates rise after transitioning. It actually says the exact opposite, it says that transitioning lowers the suicide rate.

But the study noticed that during the time when the study began, in the 70s, the transgender suicide rate was still higher than the cisgender suicide rate... Although the suicide rate was lower after transitioning, it still did not even out to the level of the rest of the population. This was due to the terrible social climate and all of the discrimination that transgender people faced. They were not accepted in society and they did not have access to the proper care that was tailored to their needs. Even though their gender dysphoria was alleviated through transitioning, they still faced an immense amount of social hardship and a lack of support which led to a lot of suicides.

The study concluded that as the social climate improved and proper, individually tailored care became more readily available, the suicide rate leveled out to become equal with the cisgender population.

The doctor who conducted the study has publicly stated multiple times that the study never once claimed that transitioning was not beneficial. People are deliberately lying about it and misinterpreting it. I don't know how you can continue to claim blatantly false things using this study when the person who actually conducted it tells you that what you said is wrong.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

I've already gone over this very topic multiple times on this forum. The Sweden study never once states that the transgender suicide rates rise after transitioning. It actually says the exact opposite, it says that transitioning lowers the suicide rate.

But the study noticed that during the time when the study began, in the 70s, the transgender suicide rate was still higher than the cisgender suicide rate... Although the suicide rate was lower after transitioning, it still did not even out to the level of the rest of the population. This was due to the terrible social climate and all of the discrimination that transgender people faced. They were not accepted in society and they did not have access to the proper care that was tailored to their needs. Even though their gender dysphoria was alleviated through transitioning, they still faced an immense amount of social hardship and a lack of support which led to a lot of suicides.

The study concluded that as the social climate improved and proper, individually tailored care became more readily available, the suicide rate leveled out to become equal with the cisgender population.

The doctor who conducted the study has publicly stated multiple times that the study never once claimed that transitioning was not beneficial. People are deliberately lying about it and misinterpreting it. I don't know how you can continue to claim blatantly false things using this study when the person who actually conducted it tells you that what you said is wrong.

Good job as usual


And it’s because emotions and feelings mean more to conservatives than you know facts, something they accuse us on the left of all the time lol