Daciple
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Just remember you asked for me to expand on this, please dont complain that I have honored your request.Can you expound a bit more on the kingdom of the Son and the kingdom of the Father? I'd love to see some more scripture on this.
The Kingdom of the Father and the Son is the terminology to refer to the Kingdom of God that is ushered in, in 2 stages, separated by the Parousia of our Lord. The Kingdom of the Son, the Present Era of Proclamation and the Kingdom of the Father, not yet, the Future World to come.
Jesus Himself relates to the dual Kingdoms. As we have already seen Jesus Himself says the Kingdom is here now and presently, He Himself ushered it in when He came.
Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (or amidst you)
Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Matt 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
So we know without a doubt that Jesus has already ushered in the Kingdom of God.
Jesus also contrasts these 2 Kingdoms as seen below in these Scriptures:
Matt 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Mark 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Paul also clearly denotes the 2 different Kingdoms:
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
1 Tim 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
So we can see from Scripture that there are 2 distinct ages or worlds, there are not 3 or 4 but 2 and only 2 spoken about in Scripture. These 2 ages comprise of the Kingdom of God which is related to us as the Kingdom of the Son the Present Age and the Kingdom of the Father the Coming Age or World. This isnt to say that the Father isnt active in the Kingdom of the Son or that the Son isnt active in the Kingdom of the Father. Again one final Scripture that shows the 2 Kingdoms:
Matt 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
And as we see here the Kingdom of the Father immediately follows the Son, there isnt a some space of 1000 yrs between the Sons Kingdom, which is NOW and the Fathers Kingdom.
This Parable, the Parable of the Wheat and Tares explain how the Kingdom of the Son operates and what ends the Kingdom of the Son and ushers in the Kingdom of the Father, again all of this is an understanding of the ONE Kingdom of God that is ushered in, in 2 stages. To further explain the position using the Parable of the Wheat and Tares lets examine somethings we notice in those verses:
Matt 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Jesus interprets this for us:
Matt 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
So according to these Scriptures, the Children of the Kingdom which is NOW are those who accept the Gospel, you and me and everyone Born Again. During this time there are also children of the wicked, the devil and his kingdom. We will all grow together until the Parousia of our Lord aka the 2nd Coming at which time all those who are of the devil and his kingdom are taken out and thrown into the furnace of fire (the Judgement) and then comes the Kingdom of the Father, where as it is shown Jesus hands over His Kingdom to the Father so God can be all and all.
1 Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
There is no 1000 yrs between the Parousia and the world to come, aka the New Heaven and the New Earth. There is no literal reign of Christ on this Earth, its this Present Age, then the 2nd Coming, then the Judgement, then the Kingdom is handed over to the Father so God is all and all...
I can expand further and more deeply if needed, but I think that ought to suffice for a base understanding of the 2 stages of the Kingdom of God...
Aww thanks broski! You're adorable too!You are so precious sometimes.
I mean sure if you want to force a preconceived ideology into it, I mean that is what you are doing, but if we take the text for what it states and more importantly what Jesus was meaning, it is obvious that He is using the two sayings concerning the Kingdom as being synonymous.It is possible that the Kingdom of Heaven can be literal and the Kingdom of God spiritual and that verse still make sense.
Did I say those Sacrifices took away Sin? No, I am saying to restart the Sacrifices for Sin, which if you are honest in your literal reading of the Old Testament that you attribute to this 1000 yr Reign of Christ on Earth, specifically says that there will be Sacrifices for Sin, are a spitting in the face of Christ and His Sacrifice for ALL Sin...Oh, brother. Sacrifices never took away sin. And not all sacrifices were for sin. It doesn't besmirch the completed work of Jesus one bit to perform them in his millennial kingdom. Paul sacrificed, remember?
An example of course would be:
Ez 43:18 And he said unto me, Son of man, thus saith the Lord God; These are the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon.
19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
I could of course give more examples but that should do. Is this not what your ideology teaches is going to be happening in this supposed 1000 yrs Reign of Christ on Earth? Isnt this what your ideology says the Temple is going to be and what is going to be going on there?
To have anyone ever again Sacrifice for Sin is to blaspheme the Work of Christ, as tho His Sacrifice wasnt complete, which again is against Scripture. Once and FOR ALL period. Now that is Heretical, that is to destroy Salvation, that is a Salvation dependent doctrine if there ever was one...
Any Theology you bring to this verse will immediately require you to admit that Sin will be rampant because there would be a need for a Sacrifice of it, which of course is going to cause you to go back on your point you tried to make previously when I brought this to your attention:
So much for a curse-free Earth that needs Sacrifices for Sin...How can you be so ignorant of scripture? Jesus Christ will reign for a thousand years on a curse-free earth.
First and foremost, here nor anywhere else is anyone mentioning a temporary 1000 yr Reign of Christ. Anyone who reads the Text directly and refuses to import a millennial presupposition into it will see that the Prophet is speaking of the Conversion of the Eschatological Israel, the Last Battle, the Day of the Lord, and the World and Worship of the (eternal) Age to Come. To look at the whole of the Prophecies it would be rediculous that he would write of things in such a cosmic scale to have them end in a weak 1000 yr Reign of Christ on Earth as opposed to an Ultimate Glory in a Perfected Kingdom of God Eternally.Sure. If there is no millennial kingdom as I have described, then what is Zechariah talking about here in chapter 14?
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Another problem with reading this literally as you would is if we do then we have to take other passages literally. Do you really believe that the Nations of the Earth are going to come up against Israel riding Donkeys and Horses?
Zec 12;4 In that day, saith the Lord, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
Or that they will literally bring cattle with them to serve as food?
Zec 14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
And again do you really believe that the Old Testament Law will be Re Instituted? Because that is what you have to accept to read the text as literal. That not just some but ALL of the Old Testament is going to be Resurrected and Established again. As I have mentioned previously this throws everything Christ did into disarray.
So the proper way to interpret this is not to view it as literal Israel but how Jesus and the Apostles viewed this type of Scripture which I have been telling you about for 5 pages now, which is to relate it to the Church, the Kingdom of the Son and the Final Kingdom of the Father.
When we look at all these Scriptures the same way they did, then we get a more clear understanding of how and what the Future of the Church holds and the end of the World and the coming of the ONLY Kingdom past this one, the New Heaven and New Earth.
I could give a break down of all of it but lets just skip ahead to the one verse you brought up, how is it to be understood?
Again this is a snap shot of the Future World not under some Millennial Reign of Christ but a Typology of how the New Heaven and New Earth will be, again not literal but revealed in Old Testament imagery to convey an Picture of how things will be in the ETERNAL State.
So this Feast of Booths that you think is literal is not, it is Typology and an Allegory, so what exactly was the Feast of Booths about? It is the Harvest Feast, that commemorates Israel being lead from Egypt thru the Wilderness where they camped in Booths, and finally deliverance into the Promise Land. If we relate this to the Church and the World to come and use Jesus own words what do we find?
Matt 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
So the Harvest is the End of the World, those who have been saved at the Harvest are those in the Church who have been Born Again, who have been lead safely by Christ thru the Wilderness and out of Egypt and now into the Real Promise Land, the New Heaven and New Earth. We will FOREVER "go up" to Worship thru Christ unto our King.
We all were at one time enemies of the Spiritual Jerusalem, and we were all Rescued by Christ, we are all then going to be Harvested and celebrate this Rescue FOREVER worshiping God. THAT is how we are to look upon these Scriptures, again I can go thru all the verses and practically the whole Book showing how all of this relates to understanding the 2 Stages of the One Kingdom of God.
Because absolutely no where in all of Scripture is there anywhere that speaks explicitly of a literal 1000 yr earthly reign of Jesus Christ, and basically NO ONE in History thought this way until the 1800's. This 1000 yr earthly reign of Christ is concocted by trying to string random verses together and making them fit when in reality they dont. One sec it literal then its not, then it is, then its not, its all confusion when we start reading the Scripture WITHOUT that preconceived ideology forced on to them...Wait. You believe that the new heaven and the new earth are literal? Why are they literal and the 1000-year earthly reign of Jesus Christ not?
However the New Earth and the New Heaven are EXPLICITLY spoken of over and over and over and over in Scripture. We are NOT to look to some weak 1000 yr reign of Christ on this Sinful Earth, no we are to look to the New Heaven and New Earth.
2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
The Promise of Him is the New Heaven and New Earth not that weak Earthly Reign you are looking toward, and if you can point me to a Scripture that say THAT but replaces it with a direct and explicty Jesus will Reign on Earth for 1000 yrs then we can talk, until then I look to the Promise Peter tells me...
I can quote many more direct verses that speak of God creating a New Heaven and New Earth, I can find zero that say I will have my Son Reign on Earth literally for exactly 1000 yrs...
You dont believe Scripture?We rule and reign with Jesus Christ? On earth? Right now?
We're doing a terrible job, then. The world sucks.
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
I mean I can quote many more but I dont want to overwhelm you with too many Scriptures but that should be enough for you to accept what Jesus has done for you, He has made you a King and a Priest in His Kingdom right now!! Maybe if we all took that a bit more seriously then maybe the World wouldnt suck as much?
Ok well again Scripture disagrees with you, clearly it defines people as having more Authority over one another and thus more Responsibility. Elders, Deacons, Pastors ect. Also calls for an Authoritative Structure in the Home, Christ, Husband, Wife, Children. Its ok if you dont want to accept what Scriptures say concerning this to win an online argument, I understand...No, I don't. I know Christian leaders who have no place being in any kind of spiritual authority. That is a real stretch.