Prophetic Expectations

cfowen

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Lol think Zombies? Yeah right, that surely isnt Biblical. The clearly were Resurrected, they clearly were alive and appeared to others. You want us to believe that deceased people showed up as zombies after Christ Resurrected? Come on now... Did Christ show up as a Zombie now too? Nonsense...



Thats funny cuz the Bible is rather conclusive that we are the firstfruits as well. Could it be because we are in Christs Body, and Christ Body is already Resurrected as the Bible clearly demonstrates?

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

I have a feeling you probably interpret the 144000 incorrectly, thinking its a literal 144000 or some other ideology. Its symoblic meaning the whole of all mankind that has been saved from Israel and Gentiles. 12 tribes of Israel, 12 Apostles of Christ and then 100,000 meaning fullness of fullness aka 144000, all of mankind that is saved. Or as has been demonstrated, the Church which of course encompasses all saved people as opposed to your Hyper Dispensationalism.



Incorrect, the Church is encompassing all those who ever believed, the Church and Spiritual Israel are the same thing however I know you dont accept this because of the Hyper Dispensationalism you hold to...



You even quote it but dont even believe it, we are ALREADY sitting in Heavenly Places in Christ. We are ALREADY Kings and Priests, as I have stated multiple times, there is no need to wait you are there if you have been Born Again, as the Bible declares.



No again you are wrong, what did Jesus say?

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live
:

Martha spoke of a bodily resurrection at the last day (which of course there is only ONE as she states) but Jesus corrects her and say HE is the Resurrection.

I agree when Christ comes we will be with Him, there is no argument in that specific fact however pretty much everything else you say I disagree with 100%. The 1st Resurrection is Christ, the 2nd Resurrection is the bodily of the believers 1st, those here are translated, then the rest of the dead.

You of course have this wholly different ideology which literally only a handful of humans in all of history would even slightly agree, but there definitely isnt this "1st Resurrection" then Rapture in the method that you are saying here...



That is NOT what the Bible says whatsoever, the Bible is replete with references to Israelities being in Heaven. Jesus went into Abrahams Bosom and brought them into Heaven. Its like you dont believe that the Blood of Christ flows from the beginning of the World until the End or something...

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.



Yeah all that is just what you made up, and has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible, just like you saying the Old Testament Saints that were Resurrected with Christ were Zombies. Looks like you literally think David himself will be on an Earthly Throne, wow. Jesus is sitting on the Throne of David. I mean you really dont seem to understand Scripture whatsoever...

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

All of those things are shadow of the Heavenly Realities, and the fact is the Old Covenant has been done away, it makes absolutely no sense for God to send His Son to die on the Cross to literally do away with the Old Covenant to then go backwards and re establish the Old Covenant on Earth along with the other Rituals. Jesus Christ Himself sits on the Real Throne of David which is the Throne in Heaven.

When Christ comes back He will destroy the Earth, as Scripture is clear about:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

We dont look for an Earthly Rule of Christ, we look for the actual fulfillment of all of the Promises, the New Heaven and New Earth which will happen when Christ comes back, burns the Earth melting even the elements in heat and creates them. There will be no Earth as we see it now for Him to rule on, this going back to 1 AD is nonsense. Jesus rules now, sits on the Throne now, the 1000 yrs is Symbolic of His Reign now of which we Reign with Him on the Earth and when we die in Heaven...
Since you edited the post and I didnt see it. Dude just how many Resurrections do you believe there are? Your End Time belief system is all over the place...



Amen, your sect definitely does not do this. I mean I have read many different ideologies concerning Eschatology but yours is the most wild and out there Ive ever seen in my life. And none of it conforms to Scripture...



You rob the people of God their blessings constantly trying to make God a respecter of Persons, Scripture says the exact opposite.

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

The Bible is very clear that the promises God gave to Israel are given to those in Christ by Faith. You utterly destroy these Scriptures.

Gal 3;16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Very simple Biblical Doctrine, Doctrine that has been taught since the beginning and held to since the foundation of the Church. You come in with your brand new doctrine, claim it as truth and the way to discern the Bible and essentially state that literally no one in the History of the Church understood how to "rightly divide" the Scripture. Absolutely no one believes pretty much anything you have to say concerning "rightly dividing" the Scriptures. Its never been taught that way including from the Apostles themselves or Paul.

The Bible is absolutely clear concerning what you are saying and doing:

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace;

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

1 Tim 4;4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.


2 Tim 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

The Doctrine you are trying to teach absolutely no one on Earth has ever taught except a very tiny few starting in the past few decades. The Bible doesnt teach it nor does any other teacher that has existed prior to like 1970. We are to hold fast to the sound words and doctrines that were established at the time the Bible was written and the Early Church completed it. Everything else we are to look at with complete suspicion. Might as well be Joseph Smith out here with your doctrines...



I mean except the fact that the Prophets continually wrote about it all the time. Was it hidden and they had pieces, yes but to say no one knew nothing is complete ignorance. David continually prophecies of Christ, in fact the entire Old Testament 100% testifies of Christ. It is Christ all together but you want us to accept that none of it pertains to Christ or to the Gentiles. You have zero clue what you are talking about...

Or other than the fact that Peter literally preached it in the beginning of Acts ect...



The Entire Bible applies to us, the Bible itself literally tells this to us, but you want to tell us it doesnt lol okie dokie brother...

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Not some, not a few, but ALL Scripture is profitable for doctrine reproof correction and instruction, and so we clearly understand this, Paul was attesting to the Old Testament here above any and everything else. In fact He literally teaches everything concerning the Gospel OUT OF THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Sorry man I go with the Bible and not your sect and false teachers...
Daciple,

Nothing you said in those 2 posts is even close to being scriptural. Nothing you've said is even worth discussing. I don't think I've ever seen such lack of Biblical knowledge. There's nothing you have ever said that would possibly benefit me or anyone else on this forum. I refuse to read any more of your absurd non-Biblical beliefs and insults, so the best thing is to just make you disappear. Bye.
 
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phipps

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Signs of the Second Coming in the Bible

Much of the Bible is dedicated to the theme of the Second Coming. There are over 1500 prophecies of Jesus’ Second Coming recorded in the Bible. For every prophecy of His first coming mentioned in the Old Testament, there are eight predicting His Second Coming. Christ’s return is also mentioned once in every five verses in the New Testament.

Many Old Testament prophets were given visions and instructions concerning this period, often called “the time of the end.” Daniel was told that his writings were for the time of the end (Daniel 12:9). John’s book of Revelation is also full of prophecies concerning the Second Coming and the period just before it.

The Bible warns us of a period of great trouble and tribulation just before the Second Coming. As well, the Coming itself is not necessarily good news for all people, as the Bible warns that those that have rejected Christ will run from Him at His appearing.

The Scriptures tell us that there will be signs in the earth, distress of nations, and turmoil in the social structure of societies. In Matthew 24, Jesus discusses the events prior to His Second Coming. He intermingles His warnings about the destruction of Jerusalem with the destruction of the world at the end of time using the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem as a dual application. This discourse is also presented in Mark 13 and Luke 21.

It can be argued that many of the events portrayed in the Bible have always existed on the earth, but never has there been a time when all these events were evident in so many diverse places and in such frequency.

Isn’t Jesus coming secretly?

The Bible makes it abundantly plain that Jesus’ coming is not a secret event. See Revelation 1:7, Psalm 50:3, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, and Matthew 24:27.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 - 17 features a shout loud enough to literally wake the dead (the resurrection of the Christian dead takes place right after it). A trumpet and an Archangel “voice” will be heard. The Greek “voice” is fwnh> — fo-nay’ , from which we get our word “phone.” Can you imagine a silent phone call? The same word is in Revelation 14:7 when it says “loud voice.” 1 Corinthians 15:51 - 53; Psalm 50: 3 - 5; Matthew 24:31 — do these references suggest silence — or a great deal of sound and noise ?

When the Bible speaks of those being left, it does not say they will be left alive on earth. Luke 17:26-37 describes the event in detail. In Noah’s day there were two classes, one taken and saved, the other left and destroyed by the flood. In Lot's day there were two classes, one taken out of the city and saved, the other left in the city and consumed by fire.

It will be similar when Jesus comes. One class will be taken to heaven with Jesus and the other class will be destroyed. In Luke 17:37, Jesus is asked, "Where, Lord?" Where are these people left? Jesus responded, “Wheresoever the body is, thither the eagles will be gathered together.”


Revelation 19:11-18 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9, 2:8 clarify the point that when Jesus comes, those who reject His way will be with death.

Whenever we interpret Scripture, we must be sure to not build a doctrine upon one verse alone, but to take the whole Bible’s teachings on an issue into consideration. If a verse we are using seems to contradict another verse, then there is a discrepancy in our understanding. This is where really knowing our Bible is so important. Verses are scattered about the Bible and, like treasure hunters, we are to seek in the inspired verse and lay Scripture beside Scripture, “line upon line; here a little, and there a little” (Isaiah 28:10).

Mark 13: 26 - 27 tells us the Lord will be “...coming in the clouds with great power and glory” and sending His angels to gather His people from every point of the compass to be with Him.

Matthew 24:27 compares the coming of the Lord to “lightning” blazing across the sky from east to west — hardly a “secret” event.
Matthew 24:30 states His “sign” will appear in heaven and all tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see Him coming in “the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

Revelation 1:7 reveals more details about the peoples of the earth wailing and mourning as they see Him coming — and even those who pieced Him will be alive to see Him coming in the clouds.
 
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TokiEl

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Signs of the Second Coming in the Bible

Much of the Bible is dedicated to the theme of the Second Coming. There are over 1500 prophecies of Jesus’ Second Coming recorded in the Bible. For every prophecy of His first coming mentioned in the Old Testament, there are eight predicting His Second Coming. Christ’s return is also mentioned once in every five verses in the New Testament.

Many Old Testament prophets were given visions and instructions concerning this period, often called “the time of the end.” Daniel was told that his writings were for the time of the end (Daniel 12:9). John’s book of Revelation is also full of prophecies concerning the Second Coming and the period just before it.

The Bible warns us of a period of great trouble and tribulation just before the Second Coming. As well, the Coming itself is not necessarily good news for all people, as the Bible warns that those that have rejected Christ will run from Him at His appearing.

And someone said Paul i presume that He will come at the last trump.

Doesn't that sound like the 7th trumpet ?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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And someone said Paul i presume that He will come at the last trump.

Doesn't that sound like the 7th trumpet ?
There are all sorts of trumpets used in the Bible, from the Feast of Trumpets to the silver trumpets when the wandering Israelites were to move on in the desert. The last one is distinct in that it is the one God himself blows.

I have wondered about the one from Zachariah 9

14 And the Lord shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord God shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

15 The Lord of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar.

16 And the Lord their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.

To me this seems pertinent as it ties the Lord blowing that trumpet to an event, not a feast or a Tribulation judgement. This event appears to be related to conflict with Damascus. Zechariah 9 begins as follows...

"The burden of the word of the Lord in the land of Hadrach, and Damascus shall be the rest thereof: when the eyes of man, as of all the tribes of Israel, shall be toward the Lord..."
 
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TokiEl

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There are all sorts of trumpets used in the Bible, from the Feast of Trumpets
Have you heard... No man knows the day or the hour... is an idiom for that Feast since it is on a new moon. Interesting.



To me this seems pertinent as it ties the Lord blowing that trumpet to an event, not a feast or a Tribulation judgement. This event appears to be related to conflict with Damascus. Zechariah 9 begins as follows...
God is a goddamn poet.

Not always understandable but intriguing nonetheless.
 

phipps

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There are all sorts of trumpets used in the Bible, from the Feast of Trumpets to the silver trumpets when the wandering Israelites were to move on in the desert. The last one is distinct in that it is the one God himself blows.

I have wondered about the one from Zachariah 9

14 And the Lord shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord God shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

15 The Lord of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar.

16 And the Lord their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.

To me this seems pertinent as it ties the Lord blowing that trumpet to an event, not a feast or a Tribulation judgement. This event appears to be related to conflict with Damascus. Zechariah 9 begins as follows...

"The burden of the word of the Lord in the land of Hadrach, and Damascus shall be the rest thereof: when the eyes of man, as of all the tribes of Israel, shall be toward the Lord..."
Personally I don't know much about the minor prophets and their prophecies. I've used Zechariah 9:9-10 because its a prophecy about Jesus' coming.

Zechariah 9 seems to me about God defending His people Verse 8, I will camp around My house Because of the army, Because of him who passes by and him who returns. No more shall an oppressor pass through them, For now I have seen with My eyes. Verses 9-10 are about rejoicing about the coming of Jesus and Verses 11-17 are about God saving His people and defending them. God promises victory of His people.
 

Daciple

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Testing the prophets


If God communicates His intention through His servants the prophets, and Satan counterfeits the messages of God through false prophets, then it is vital that we test the prophets to see if the message is indeed from God. On one hand, the Scriptures admonish us to "Despise not prophesyings" (1 Thessalonians 5:2) and to "Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper" (2 Chronicles 20:20).

On the other hand, there are warnings against false prophets:

"For false christs and false prophets will rise and will show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect" (Matthew 24:24).

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

False prophets claim to have dreams and to see visions, so the Scriptures must provide criteria whereby the authenticity of the prophets' statements may be tested.

"Do not despise prophecies, test all things; hold fast what is good" (1Thessalonians 5:20-21).

The Bible lists a series of tests that can be applied to prophets to determine whether they are genuine or not. Many of these tests can be individually counterfeited, but collectively, they provide an impassable barrier to false prophets. False prophets can quote Scripture or have some of their prophecies come true, but they can still be false prophets—subtly using every opportunity to lead God's people astray.

A true prophet of God will meet all the Biblical criteria, which can be summarized as follows:

1. A true prophet's message will be in complete harmony with the word of God and the law of God.

"To the law and to the testimony! If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them" (Isaiah 8:20).

Most modern-day prophets would fail this test. A prophet cannot negate what God has revealed in His Word, and all the precepts of the law are binding (James 2:10). When the law is not observed, the gift of prophecy is withdrawn (Lamentations 2:9).

2. A true prophet's predictions must come to pass.

"...when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him" (Deuteronomy 18:22).

A word of warning: A prophet's predictions may occur, and may even be accompanied by miracles. But if they do not pass the other tests, the prophet is still false.

"If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying 'Let us go after other gods'—which you have not known—and let us serve them, you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him" (Deuteronomy 13:1-4).

Signs and wonders do not prove a prophet's validity. As in the above Scriptural example, prophets' words are not always in harmony with the law of God. Satan will work miracles in the last days to deceive many (Revelation 16:14).

3. A true prophet prophesies to edify the Church, counseling and advising in religious matters.

"But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification and exhortation, and comfort...but he that prophesieth edifieth the church." (1Corinthians 14:3-4).

A true prophet will not condone sin (1 John 3:4).

True prophets will exhort the church to a higher standard, and will exemplify God's principles in their own lives. False prophets, such as 16th-century seer Nostradamus, do not live according to God's Word and do not build up the Church with their prophecies.

4. A true prophet will exalt Christ as the Son of God and the Saviour of humankind.

"No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us...Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God" (1 John 4:12,15).

After His resurrection, Jesus expounded the Scriptures to His disciples, revealing to them the prophetic proclamations regarding Himself (Luke 24:27).

Again a word of warning regarding this test. Many false prophets will say to Jesus in the last judgment, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works" (Matthew 7:22)?

The Lord will not recognize them as His, as they practiced iniquity (Greek: anomia — against the law of God). They seem to pass the test, but fail in regard to the law.

5. The true prophet will speak with authority (Matthew 7:29).

Jesus is the supreme example, and He spoke those things which He had seen and heard from the Father (John 8:26,28,38). A prophet will likewise reveal those things with authority that have been revealed to him by God.

6. The true prophet will bear good fruit.

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" (Matthew 7:20).

This test is compelling. Does the prophet live a life in harmony with the will of God and are the lives of those touched transformed so that they too live godly lives? Once again, a word of warning: No one is without sin, and all fall short of the glory of God.

"Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months" (James 5:17).

Although Elijah had faults and passions just like us, he strove to live a godly life and the fruits of his labor testify that he was truly a prophet of God.

7. The true prophet, when in vision, will exhibit physical signs.

In vision, the prophet's eyes will be open.

"The utterance of him who hears the words of God, who sees the vision of the Almighty, who falls down, with eyes wide open" (Numbers 24:4).

Daniel 10 describes the physical state of the prophet Daniel while in vision.

"And I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves. Therefore I was left alone and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me; for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength. Yet heard I the voice of his words; and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face to the ground" (Daniel 10:7-9).

Daniel had "no strength," and he must have fallen to the ground as he lay with his "face to the ground." The prophet does not, however, remain in this helpless state on the ground, but he is lifted up by God, and while still in vision, stands up on his feet (Daniel 10:10-11).

In vision, the prophet will have no breath in him, and no strength.

"And suddenly one having the likeness of the sons of men touched my lips; then I opened my mouth and spoke, saying to him who stood before me, My Lord, because of the vision, my sorrows have overwhelmed me, and I have retained no strength. For how can this servant of my Lord talk with you my Lord? As for me, no strength remains in me now, nor is any breath left in me. Then again, the one having the likeness of a man touched me and strengthened me" (Daniel 10:16-17).

No mention is made of the restoration of breathing while in vision. The prophet is sustained by God while in vision. In summary, a prophet in vision shows these signs:

i) Falls down weak

ii) Is raised up and strengthened by God

iii) Has the eyes wide open during the vision

iv) Does not breath, even when speaking

These signs cannot be readily counterfeited. In fact, modern so-called visionaries tend to fall down with their eyes closed, and they have breath in them, because only God can sustain life without breath.
Do you believe there are Modern Day Prophets?
 

Daciple

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Although Rev 20 calls it the first resurrection... i am inclined to think you got this.
Lets quote this verse again you tell me the exact place it states it is when Jesus Returns to the Earth:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Show me exactly where in those verses that states the timing of the 1st Resurrection is at Christs Return.

Ill wait because it doesnt, you have simply chosen to interject it into that place to fit your preconceived timeline and ideology. There is no mention of the timing of the 1st Resurrection in these verses, other than it comes BEFORE the rest of the dead are Resurrected.

I believe the 1st Resurrection was Christ because that is the 1st who was Resurrected. Scripture teaches us that everyone who is Born Again takes part in THAT Resurrection as I have already quoted 2 times.

I believe that those who are Born Again, the 2nd death has no power over them. If you DONT believe that the 1st Resurrection is Jesus and those Born Again then you MUST now accept that the 2nd death can indeed have power over you and them and everyone except this tiny itty bitty group of people that would exist in this tiny sliver of history.

I believe that those who are Born Again, who have shared in the 1st Resurrection of Christ, are RIGHT NOW reigning and ruling with Christ. Scripture is very clear that we are a Royal Priesthood, that we are Kings and Priests right NOW and Christ is ruling RIGHT NOW.

If you reject this then ONLY this tiny itty bitty group who are ONLY those that are beheaded during this tiny little bit of history will actually rule with Christ and be Priests. According to this ALL other people will first off NOT be Resurrected and 2ndly NOT rule during the "1000 yrs". To stay consistent in ones theology one must now agree that they cant be part of the 1st Resurrection because they arent getting specifically beheaded in this tiny sliver of history.

The 1000 yrs is symbolic of the End Times or Last Days which started when Christ Resurrected and Ascended:

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds
;

It ends at Christs coming, which is when EVERYONE will be Resurrected Bodily. Those who are Born Again rule on the Earth by the way of the Holy Spirit in them aka the Church and when they die they are in Heaven with Christ.

This fits the actual verses as opposed to the Pre Mil (which all of you are teaching to some degree) ideologies. I'd rather be a ruler with Christ now in His Kingdom as Scriptures state then wait for some 1/2 cocked not really perfect Earthly rule of Christ on this Sin sick Earth at some future date. When Christ comes this World is done for, it will burn up and then we will see the New Heaven and New Earth.

But again point me to that exact part of these verses that say this happens at Christs Return...
 

Daciple

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Nothing you said in those 2 posts is even close to being scriptural. Nothing you've said is even worth discussing. I don't think I've ever seen such lack of Biblical knowledge.
Lol you say that to every single person that disagrees with you over any doctrine. We know Owen, only YOU and your Sect have the Biblical Knowledge. We know you are heads and shoulders above everyone in understanding the Bible, everyone else lacks so drastically much compared to you lol

Just like the Preterists, the prophecy idiots, who make a ton of money peddling supposition and lies, base everything totally on guesswork, along with a total lack of knowledge of the NT, especially. This profound ignorance is due to the fact that they don't obey 2Tim 2:15 and rightly divide. Because they don't rightly divide, they essentially know zero about the NT
Because of the lack of Bible knowledge by the great bulk of Christianity, most Christians are stuck in the Acts period, because or their reluctance to give up the rapture, which has nothing to do with them, or in the Gospels, because of the red letters.
Those that don't RIGHTLY divide, like every preacher in the mainstream denominational church system, is lucky to understand even 50%
This shoots down about half of what the entire mainstream denominational teaches today, since about 1/2 of their teaching comes from the now defunct Acts period (rapture, Acts church, gifts, etc.). Mainstream Denominational Churches are Jewish synagogues teaching Jewish-only doctrine to unsuspecting Gentiles. Not one mainstream denominational preacher rightly divides God's Word of truth and, therefore, it is impossible for them to be correct about what the Acts and after-Acts periods were/are all about.
Mainstream Denominational churches are usually OK when it comes to getting a person saved. After that, nothing they teach about the hope, calling, rules, and directions of the believing saint is true - with no exceptions. If one wants to know what his future is, they must stop going to denominational churches, which, in reality, are Jewish synagogues teaching non-applicable Jewish truths to unsuspecting Gentile sheep. Any church that teaches that the rapture, the Gifts of the Spirit, the New Jerusalem, or anything concerning the Acts Church, is truth for today. is 100% wrong, due to their lack of rightly dividing God's Word. Thus, none of these teachers are approved unto God, and they all need to feel ashamed, according to 2Tim 2:15.
Since only dispensationalists rightly divide and, except for a few Baptists that are of the weaker Ac 2 dispensationalist ilk, no member of any mainstream denomination is a dispensationalist, officially, so, by definition, no loyal member of a mainstream denomination is approved unto God, according to 2Tim 2:15. The ONLY way to truly understand scripture is to be an Ac 28:28 dispensationalist that is strongly into right division. The truth is not in anyone that doesn't rightly divide, period. To be otherwise is impossible.
Definitely, until the 19th century, people did not know how to rightly divide God's word (2Tim 2:15 and Phil 1:10) and, therefore, it was impossible for them to be dispensationalists.
There's nothing you have ever said that would possibly benefit me or anyone else on this forum.
I am glad to know that you have read every single thing I have written on this forum, that must have taken you months to do, I mean I have only been posting on this site for the better part of a decade. I am also glad that you are able to let everyone else know that nothing written in that time has been beneficial to them. I mean we can see by your own words only YOU have anything beneficial to tell others because literally the entire history of humanity is wrong in understanding the Bible except you and your little sect.

I am so glad that you have come on this site to set straight everyone of us and let us all know just how stupid and lacking we are in our Biblical Knowledge. Thank you master of Biblical Knowledge...

I refuse to read any more of your absurd non-Biblical beliefs and insults, so the best thing is to just make you disappear. Bye.
It is interesting 2 things, you are not able to articulate your points to those who disagree and give detailed reasoning why they dont agree instead you dismiss them as wholly ignorant on all accounts and now have chosen to put them on ignore. 2nd I do admit I am rather insulting to you, well not exactly you but your cult like mentality because the essences of it literally casts everyone who doesnt agree with you as being ignorant, not able to "rightly divide" the Word, not approved unto God, of no benefit to anyone on Earth, ought to be ashamed of themselves, total lack of knowledge of the New Testament, ect ect ect.

I am simply calling your Cult out, and will continue to do so every time you impose your opinion and try and insult every single person on the forum with your condescending and arrogant stances. The Bible tells us to mark people such as yourself who bring total division among the Brethren. When you get up on your high horse and tell every single one of us we have no clue what we are talking about because we dont agree with your Cult, that is literally the definition of Rom 16:17-18 as you bring offences to the Doctrine which we all have learned.

You can make me disappear to you, but I definitely wont be disappearing when you write more of your divisive doctrine contrary to the entire established Church and History and then insult all of our intelligence by talking down to us as tho you are the only human that understands the Bible. I will be more than happy to keep showing everyone what you really think of them...
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I wasn't sure where to post this up but what the film-maker said was so observant of modern day Christianity that it needed to be here. The video is not quite what the thumbnail suggests but makes a very important point.*

*Be a Berean!
 
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phipps

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I found commentary on Zechariah 9.

1. Burden. Heb. maśśa’, “a prophetic utterance,” “an oracle” (see on Isa. 13:1).
Hadrach. Probably the Ḫattarikka of the Assyrian inscriptions, a territory of Syria bordering on Hamath.
The rest thereof. That is, Damascus would be the resting place of the “burden”; that is, the message was denunciatory of that city.
When the eyes. The meaning of this expression is not clear. The LXX reads, “For the Lord looks upon men, and upon all the tribes of Israel.” The reading, “For to the Lord belong the cities of Aram” (RSV), requires the change of two letters in the Hebrew that are similar in appearance.


2. Hamath. A city about 118 mi. (189 km.) north by east of Damascus.
Tyrus, and Zidon. For a description of Tyre and for the punishments to be inflicted upon Tyre and Sidon, as set forth in vs. 3, 4, see on Eze. 26 to 28. Zechariah’s description closely parallels Ezekiel’s more detailed picture.


5. Ashkelon. The downfall of the great city of Tyre would bring dismay and fear upon Tyre’s neighbors, the chief cities of Philistia here named. Compare Ezekiel’s prophecy against the Philistines (Eze. 25:15–17).
6
6. Bastard. One born out of wedlock, or one of alien birth (see on Deut. 23:2).


7. His blood. Doubtless a reference to the heathen practice of drinking the blood of sacrifices, or of eating the sacrifices with the blood. The Israelites were strictly forbidden to eat blood (Lev. 17:10, 12).
Abominations. See Isa. 66:3, 17.
For our God. The remnant would forsake their idolatrous practices and join themselves to Israel.
Governor. Heb. ’alluph. A change in vowel pointing permits the translation “thousand,” “family,” or “clan” (see Num. 1:16; 10:4; (1 Sam. 10:19). Those who joined themselves to the Lord would become like one of the families or clans of Judah.
Jebusite. The Jebusites were the ancient inhabitants of the stronghold of Zion. The tribe was not entirely destroyed, but was made to serve as bondmen (1 Kings 9:20, 21). It is not entirely clear what the prophet meant by the comparison. Perhaps he was predicting the absorption of the Philistines into the state of Israel.


8. I will encamp. God will defend Israel from her enemies.
Him that passeth by. A reference to the raids of an enemy or to hostile attacks upon various places.
Now have I seen. God now regards Israel’s condition and purposes to give her help (see Ex. 3:7, 9).


9. Rejoice greatly. Zion is called upon to rejoice because her promised salvation will be realized through the coming of her King, The Messiah.
Just. Heb. ṣaddiq, a word occurring more than 200 times in the OT. It is generally translated “righteous,” less frequently just.” The term is elsewhere used of the Messiah. Jeremiah declared, “I will raise unto David a righteous Branch,” who was to be called “the Lord our righteousness [Heb. ṣedeq, from the same root as ṣaddiq]” (Jer. 23:5, 6).


Some see in ṣaddiq also the meaning “triumphant” (see RSV). This idea is derived from the observation that one who receives what is his right is therefore triumphant. Though such a definition is in harmony with the context, it is doubtful that the meaning ought to be thus restricted. Moral righteousness is a prime attribute of the Messiah. In His humanity Christ wrought out a perfect character, and this He offers to impart to all who accept Him by faith. “All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags” (Isa. 64:6). But Jesus was made unto us “wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption” (1Cor. 1:30).
Salvation. From the Heb. yasha‘, “to save.” Yasha ‘is the root word of the name “Jesus” (see on Matt. 1:1, 21).
Lowly. On this attribute of the Messiah see Matt. 11:29; Phil. 2:5–8.
Upon an ass. For a fulfillment of this prediction see on Matt. 21:1–11.


10. Cut off. A forecast of the ultimate abolition of war. Ephraim and Jerusalem represent respectively the ten tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel and the two tribes comprising the southern kingdom of Judah, both comprehending the entire Jewish nation.
Unto the heathen. Or, “unto the nations.” All enemy opposition to the people of Israel would eventually be put down (Joel 3:1–17; Zech. 14:1–9).
Ends of the earth. An indication of the universal sway of Messiah’s kingdom.


11. As for thee. God addresses His covenant people.
Covenant. Probably in its larger aspects a reference to the covenant made with man in Eden (Gen. 3:15), and renewed to Abraham (Gen. 22:18). This covenant became known as the new covenant (Heb. 8:8–12).
I have sent forth. Or, “I will send forth.” A reference to the Israelites still captive in foreign lands.


12. Turn you. The divine appeal to the prisoners scattered abroad to accept deliverance. The stronghold is Zion, defended by God and symbolical of His salvation (see Micah 4:8).
Prisoners of hope. The returned exiles thought themselves to be the prisoners of circumstance, but God assures them that there is hope of deliverance—if they are diligent in obeying His voice (ch. 6:15; see on Matt. 7:24–27).
Even to day. In the face of untoward conditions.
Double. Compare Isa. 61:7.


13. Bent Judah. God as a warrior ready for battle employs Judah as His bow, and Ephraim (Israel) as His arrow.
Raised up. The clause reads literally, “I will rouse.”
Greece. Here probably a symbol of the countries to which the Jews had been driven (see Joel 3:6).


14. Shall be seen. The intervention of Jehovah is thus poetically described. Compare Ps. 18:14.
Whirlwinds. Compare Job 37:9.


15. Defend them. The poetic description of v. 14 is continued. The imagery is intensely dramatic. The slaughter of the enemies is compared to a sacrifice and the attackers are pictured as drunk with the blood of their victims.

16. Save them. The tables would be turned. Those who had been downtrodden and oppressed would glitter as the precious stones of a crown.
Lifted up as an ensign. Literally, “glitter,” “twinkle.”


17. His goodness. Or, “his good.” The Lord, the mighty Deliverer, is extolled.
Corn. Grain and new wine represent productive abundance. The needs of life will be provided in abundance when God restores His people to their inheritance.


This is not part of the commentary but in Prophecy winds means strife/commotion/"winds of war". Jeremiah 25:31-33, 49:36,37, 4:11-13; Zechariah 7:14
Trumpet means Loud warning of God's approach. Exodus 19:16-17, Joshua 6:4-5
 
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phipps

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I don't know about you guys but the Prophecies I love reading the most are about life beyond earth for God's people after Jesus comes back. It fills us with hope about the future eternally. Life here on earth is meant to be brief. We are supposed to spend the rest of lives eternally with God.

The Earth Made New

The fire that will destroy Satan and his followers will also cleanse the earth:

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness (2 Peter 3:10-13).

God will restore the earth to its original beauty, making the earth new: Revelation 21:1

And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful” (Revelation 21:3-5).

God's home will be among His people. The sorrows of the world will be passed away and will no longer come to mind:

For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy. I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying (Isaiah 65:17-19).

The kingdom of God will be restored. The new earth will be the final home of those who choose God's way.

The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's; But the earth He has given to the children of men (Psalm 115:16).
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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I don't know about you guys but the Prophecies I love reading the most are about life beyond earth for God's people after Jesus comes back. It feels us with hope about the future eternally. Life here on earth is meant to be brief. We are supposed to spend the rest of lives eternally with God.

The Earth Made New

The fire that will destroy Satan's followers will also cleanse the earth:

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness (2 Peter 3:10-13).

God will restore the earth to its original beauty, making the earth new: Revelation 21:1

And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful” (Revelation 21:3-5).

God's home will be among His people. The sorrows of the world will be passed away and will no longer come to mind:

For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy. I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying (Isaiah 65:17-19).

The kingdom of God will be restored. The new earth will be the final home of those who choose God's way.

The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's; But the earth He has given to the children of men (Psalm 115:16).
I remember reading these words as a child...

"And as He spoke, He no longer looked to them like a lion; but the things that began to happen after that were so great and beautiful that I cannot write them. And for us this the end of all the stories, and we can most truly say that they all lived happily ever after. But for them it was only the beginning of the real story. All their life in this world and all their adventures in Narnia had only been the cover and the title page: now at last they were beginning Chapter One of the Great Story which no one on earth has read: which goes on for ever: in which every chapter is better than the one before."

C.S. Lewis, The Last Battle (Chronicles of Narnia, #7)
 

DesertRose

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An aspect of the end times that people may not take into consideration is that the Creator will take into account those who oppress others through interest.
Quran 2:275
Those who consume interest cannot stand [on the Day of Resurrection] except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity. That is because they say, "Trade is [just] like interest." But Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden interest. So whoever has received an admonition from his Lord and desists may have what is past, and his affair rests with Allah . But whoever returns to [dealing in interest or usury] - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide eternally therein.


 

Red Sky at Morning

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An aspect of the end times that people may not take into consideration is that the Creator will take into account those who oppress others through interest.
Quran 2:275
Those who consume interest cannot stand [on the Day of Resurrection] except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity. That is because they say, "Trade is [just] like interest." But Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden interest. So whoever has received an admonition from his Lord and desists may have what is past, and his affair rests with Allah . But whoever returns to [dealing in interest or usury] - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide eternally therein.


Why does Allah seem so upset about interest whereas if a physical product changes hands and the seller adds a margin to that product, he is OK with it? I can see that crippling interest is just another form of robbery but what about "regular" interest?
 

DesertRose

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Are you talking about the difference of a limited profit versus interest @Red Sky at Morning ? Surely you can see the slavery of compound interest Red. To me the difference is clearly evident especially when you see how it enslaved entire populations and countries. I do not see people crying blood about profit.;)

"Praise be to Allah.
Permissible muraabahah is where the financier (the one who has the money) buys something for one hundred million – as in the question – then when he has acquired it and taken possession of it, he sells it to your friend for payment in instalments over ten years, with a profit of 4%, for example; then your friend can keep the product or sell it in the marketplace for cash at a lower price, in order to obtain the cash.

This is muraabahah which is valid according to Islam. For more information, please see the answer to question no.36408. (That link discusses profit @Red Sky at Morning )

But if the financer gives this money (one hundred million) to your friend on the basis that he will take it back from him in instalments, with an increase of 4%, then this is a riba-based loan, which is haraam (forbidden), whether it is called financing or muraabahah. In fact calling it by this name is a kind of confusing and misleading trickery, which is also haraam."
For more on why interest is forbidden:
https://islamqa.info/en/116968
 
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