Another Perspective On Lgbtq

TempestOfTempo

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You say it when it applies... but in the case of transgender people, it doesn't. They're not just making it all up in their mind. Even if it was purely psychological, the treatment would be the same.
"They're not just making it all up in their mind."
Correct, they cannot complete the lie themselves, its too far out of our natural balance as humans..... so it takes a group effort to attempt to convince people that up is down, right is wrong and that children should be exposed to this. So it takes a group effort, it takes people like you, picking and choosing what reality fits in your mosaic of selfishness.
So yes, these children are not "making it all up in their mind"... they have a global movement of adults to help convince them that the natural feelings and explorations of their gender and sexuality are actually false and that they need to completely alter their natural, physical form for the rest of their young lives in order to achieve balance in life.
Its not called a conspiracy when its out in the open, its called an agenda.
 

mecca

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So you admit assigning a quote to me that I never made in order to advance your false narrative in support of a position which you clearly cannot defend honestly. Got it.
What? I don’t have a “false narrative” and I never misquoted you. You seemed to be claiming that gender and sex can’t be separate and I simply pointined out that that’s not true because they are different.
 

TempestOfTempo

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What? I don’t have a “false narrative” and I never misquoted you. You seemed to be claiming that gender and sex can’t be separate and I simply pointined out that that’s not true because they are different.
I said they are linked together, you then attempted to attribute a position to me I never contended myself by assigning to me the position of they are "the same thing".... a position which I never advocated. You are having difficulty defending your position here, so perhaps this is either a distraction or perhaps your arguments are just running on fumes at this point.
 

mecca

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I said they are linked together, you then attempted to attribute a position to me I never contended myself by assigning to me the position of they are "the same thing".... a position which I never advocated. You are having difficulty defending your position here, so perhaps this is either a distraction or perhaps your arguments are just running on fumes at this point.
Or perhaps your claim that they are intrinsically linked implies that you think they can't be separate. I already clarified my intentions so you should stop acting like I deliberately did anything against you. I never quoted you, I was responding to the general ideas put forth in your comment. My initial response to you simply brought up the fact that in some people, gender and sex can be separate. That was basically all I was saying. Why not leave it there?
 

mecca

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"There's no agenda"
That is completely untrue. As intelligent and as plugged into this topic as you appear to be, Im going to have to assume you are just straight lying to continue defending a position that isnt tangible by logical standards.
Wow, I really don't appreciate the accusatory language that you are using. You are being hostile to me and calling me an illogical liar when I have not lied or acted maliciously in any way. Everything I've stated has been factual and completely logical. There is no "transgender agenda". No one is forcing anyone to be trans. Transgender people still face an enormous amount of stigmatization and discrimination in society.... the only reason we are hearing more about them now is because they have stood up for themselves and tried to raise awareness of the issues they face.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Or perhaps your claim that they are intrinsically linked implies that you think they can't be separate. I already clarified my intentions so you should stop acting like I deliberately did anything against you. I never quoted you, I was responding to the general ideas put forth in your comment. My initial response to you simply brought up the fact that in some people, gender and sex can be separate. That was basically all I was saying. Why not leave it there?
I couldn't have been clearer could I? My position was that while being separate, gender and sex are also intrinsically linked together. You decided to twist my quote and parlay it into a convenient format for you to address. I simply never said the quote that you are attributing to me and if I have, I am ready to admit I was wrong in doing so. But all of the aforementioned quotes are right here in this thread so it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out who is correct regarding my previous posts.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Wow, I really don't appreciate the accusatory language that you are using. You are being hostile to me and calling me an illogical liar when I have not lied or acted maliciously in any way. Everything I've stated has been factual and completely logical. There is no "transgender agenda". No one is forcing anyone to be trans. Transgender people still face an enormous amount of stigmatization and discrimination in society.... the only reason we are hearing more about them now is because they have stood up for themselves and tried to raise awareness of the issues they face.
In one of your earlier posts, you told IN that they "sound insane", had "no idea what they are talking about" and ended your interaction with them by demanding they "get over it". All the while you made sure to address exactly ZERO of the scientific evidence they provided to counter your claims.

Your posts in this thread are becoming rude, accusatory and are fully avoiding actual scientific dialog on the subject. Its pretty clear that your personal bias is effecting your ability to engage in honest, quality dialog.... you might wish to address that within yourself.... because the more you post here, the more you undermine your own credibility. As for " There is no "transgender agenda" its part of the lgbt agenda. Its so real that homosexual communities have even ceased to deny its existence.... after years of "thats not true" their claim has currently shifted to "Yes, it really exists, but its a positive agenda".
 

mecca

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Correct, they cannot complete the lie themselves, its too far out of our natural balance as humans..... so it takes a group effort to attempt to convince people that up is down, right is wrong and that children should be exposed to this.
Being transgender is a natural occurrence and their existence does not harm children. There is nothing wrong with being transgender, just because it's different doesn't mean that it's wrong, harmful, or dangerous.

Biology is a very complex thing and there is always variation that occurs. Being transgender is connected to the prenatal hormones that you get in the womb. The first two months of pregnancy is when sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place... but hormonal differentiation of the brain takes place in the second half of pregnancy. These things occur at different times which means that there can be misalignments. For most people, it turns out fine, but for others they get the wrong hormone or the wrong amount of hormones. This can cause someone to feel like they have a girl's brain in a guy's body or vice versa. It's still a natural occurrence, it's just an abnormal one.
So it takes a group effort, it takes people like you, picking and choosing what reality fits in your mosaic of selfishness.
Everything I have stated has been perfectly in line with reality and the proven medical/scientific facts about what transgender people are and what they go through. I have no "mosaic of selfishness" lol. Letting transgender people live their lives in peace is not a selfish stance... When you decide that you think transgender people are too weird to be allowed to be treated normally in society, you are acting very selfishly because you're putting your own feelings before transgender people's well being. Why not just leave them be?... you can't get rid of them and they should be able to have a happy life like everyone else. They shouldn't be facing discrimination just for who they are.
So yes, these children are not "making it all up in their mind"... they have a global movement of adults to help convince them that the natural feelings and explorations of their gender and sexuality are actually false and that they need to completely alter their natural, physical form for the rest of their young lives in order to achieve balance in life.
There's a difference between simply exploring the ideas of gender and actually feeling a deep desire to be the opposite sex. Most people are not transgender, but a small minority are. What has been proven to help that group of people is allowing them to live as the gender that their brain says they are. A transgender person greatly benefits from transitioning... a non-transgender person never even thinks about transitioning at all. No one is forcing anyone to be transgender or to transition, that's not possible. If someone does happen to be transgender, they will want to transition in the way that is best and most suitable for them as an individual. Some people only decide to change their name and pronouns and they don't need hormone therapy... some do need it. Some people decide that surgery is the right path and other have no desire for it. It simply depends on what they personally need.

And I have already gone over the fact that transgender adolescents are not undergoing any permanent changes when they transition. They have to wait until they are older and are certain to start anything that can be permanent. Also, adults are not pushing young people into being transgender. When someone's child is trans, the child themselves were the ones who consistently proclaimed to their parents that they were actually the opposite sex. And by the way, gender and sexuality are completely separate.
 
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mecca

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I couldn't have been clearer could I? My position was that while being separate, gender and sex are also intrinsically linked together. You decided to twist my quote and parlay it into a convenient format for you to address. I simply never said the quote that you are attributing to me and if I have, I am ready to admit I was wrong in doing so. But all of the aforementioned quotes are right here in this thread so it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out who is correct regarding my previous posts.
Dude... I completely understand what you said, I didn't intend to twist anything and I never quoted you wrong. Now will you understand what I said? I am simply pointing out the fact that although there is a correlation between them, there are cases where they don't match up, where they end up un-linked. And those cases are not any less real/valid than what typically occurs.

I really don't know why you're dragging this on for so long because I already pretty much agreed with you in saying that they are correlated.
 

mecca

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In one of your earlier posts, you told IN that they "sound insane", had "no idea what they are talking about" and ended your interaction with them by demanding they "get over it". All the while you made sure to address exactly ZERO of the scientific evidence they provided to counter your claims.
Actually I already had addressed what he said multiple times... and he keeps bringing up a "cultural marxist plot" as if marxism has any relevance. He did sound pretty insane with his constant referencing of marxism because it has nothing to do with what we were discussing.
Your posts in this thread are becoming rude, accusatory and are fully avoiding actual scientific dialog on the subject.
Lol, no. I have not been rude to anyone in this thread, you are the one being rude and accusing me right now. My stance is based on scientific knowledge. Everything I said is accurate and factual, you can check for yourself.
 
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TempestOfTempo

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Being transgender is a natural occurrence and their existence does not harm children. There is nothing wrong with being transgender, just because it's different doesn't mean that it's wrong.

Biology is a very complex thing and there is always variation that occurs. Being transgender is connected to the prenatal hormones that you get in the womb. The first two months of pregnancy is when sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place... but sexual/hormonal differentiation of the brain takes place in the second half of pregnancy. These things occur at different times which means that there can be misalignments. For most people, it turns out fine, but for others they get the wrong hormone or the wrong amount of hormones. This can cause someone to feel like they have a girl's brain in a guy's body or vice versa. It's sill a natural occurrence.

Everything I have stated has been perfectly in line with reality and the proven medical/scientific facts about what transgender people are and what they go through. I have no "mosaic of selfishness" lol. Letting transgender people live their lives in peace is not a selfish stance... When you decide that you think transgender people are too weird to be allowed to be treated normally in society, you are acting very selfishly because you're putting your own feelings before transgender people's well being. Why not just leave them be?... you can't get rid of them and they should be able to have a happy life like everyone else. They shouldn't be facing discrimination just for who they are.

There's a difference between simply exploring the ideas of gender and actually feeling a deep desire to be the opposite sex. Most people are not transgender, but a small minority are. What has been proven to help that group of people is allowing them to live as the gender that their brain says they are. A transgender person greatly benefits from transitioning... a non-transgender person never even thinks about transitioning at all. No one is forcing anyone to be transgender or to transition, that's not possible. If someone does happen to be transgender, they will want to transition in the way that is best and most suitable for them as an individual. Some people only decide to change their name and pronouns and they don't need hormone therapy... some do need it. Some people decide that surgery is the right path and other have no desire for it. It simply depends on what they personally need.

And I have already gone over the fact that transgender adolescents are not undergoing any permanent changes when they transition. They have to wait until they are older and are certain to start anything that can be permanent. Also, adults are not pushing young people into being transgender. When someone's child is trans, the child themselves were the ones who consistently proclaimed to their parents that they were actually the opposite sex. And by the way, gender and sexuality are completely separate.
"Being transgender is a natural occurrence"
- WRONG It takes human doctors multiple, intense surgical operations to mutilate the humans natural physical form into the opposite gender, and then a lifetime of hormone treatments and etc. Again, I think you are just spouting pure, reactionary lies regarding this subject.
"Everything I have stated has been perfectly in line with reality and the proven medical/scientific facts about what transgender people are"
- Again, when you allow yourself to pick and choose whats real and what isnt, as opposed to letting reality itself dictate the situation, you run the risk of finding yourself as lost as you apparently are.
"Letting transgender people live their lives in peace is not a selfish stance... When you decide that you think transgender people are too weird to be allowed to be treated normally in society, you are acting very selfishly because you're putting your own feelings before transgender people's well being."
- Man what are you even babbling about here? Just arguing for the sake of argument? Where did I EVER advocate for ANY of the behavior you just attributed to me with your ridiculous statement?
"Most people are not transgender, but a small minority are."
- Then why expend so many resources and expose so many children to this if it truly only effects "a small minority"? Answer, because the people behind this agenda want to grow their agenda as much and as quickly as possible. This is an extremely tough sell to adults as even many people who support lgbt rights still have no intention of becoming homosexuals or altering their natural, physical form. So they have broken down society to the point where what would have been considered a taboo topic to expose children to only a few years ago (actually, it might have even resulted in criminal charges as well) is now being pushed as mandatory curriculum. Children are vulnerable and impressionable, and the adults who wish to exploit them (both straight and lgbt) are well aware of this. You also fail to address that almost NONE of these people have truly "identified" with the opposite sex their entire lives. Abuse and molestation of BOTH sexes of children are the leading causes of children becoming gay and-or molesters/abusers themselves. They then continue that cycle of abuse as they become abusers as well. This is a pretty clear, historical pattern and the lgbt machine is hitching itself right up alongside the pedo agenda now.
 

mecca

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It takes human doctors multiple, intense surgical operations
Transgender people occur naturally, transitioning doesn't. Transitioning is the treatment for gender dysphoria... most treatments aren't "natural" but they still help people and save lives. You keep using an appeal to nature fallacy anyway.
Again, I think you are just spouting pure, reactionary lies regarding this subject.
Lol what I said is true, you can research it for yourself. I'm not a liar and I have no interest in lying. And yes... I'm totally the reactionary here.
when you allow yourself to pick and choose whats real and what isnt, as opposed to letting reality itself dictate the situation, you run the risk of finding yourself as lost as you apparently are
You seem to be refusing to accept the reality that transgender people are real and transitioning is extremely beneficial to them. I have never once "picked and choosen" what's real. I am quite pragmatic about this situation and topic.
This is a pretty clear, historical pattern and the lgbt machine is hitching itself right up alongside the pedo agenda now.
Do I really have to tell you again that gay/lgbt people are not pedophiles or in support of p***philia?
 
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polymoog

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Having a gender inconguence is not a delusion or disorder. Simply being transgender is not a mental disorder.
if the desire to become the opposite sex naturally prevents the species from reproducing, wouldnt you agree that its a disorder?
mental disorder is, by definition, "is a behavioral or mental pattern that causes significant distress or impairment of personal functioning." personal functioning includes the ability to reproduce. this is, of course, impossible with sexual reassignment surgery to make an individual feel better.

had these individuals gone through psychological therapy to correct their mental pattern(s), they would function and reproduce normally as a man or woman without psychological distress or impairment. of course, they have the right to be trans if they like and NOT get therapy if they wish.
its no different than, say, an anxiety disorder if an individual was born with it (which theyre not)-- those individuals are welcome to function that way without treatment as long as they dont trespass on others.

ill meet you halfway, agreeing that some individuals may naturally be born this way, but theres no compromise when it comes to justifying their mental state as normal.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder
 

mecca

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if the desire to become the opposite sex naturally prevents the species from reproducing
It doesn't prevent the species from reproducing, it may prevent the individual.
wouldnt you agree that its a disorder
No. It's not classified as a disorder, they can live and enjoy their lives as a trans person.
had these individuals gone through psychological therapy to correct their mental pattern(s), they would function and reproduce normally as a man or woman without psychological distress or impairment. of course, they have the right to be trans if they like and NOT get therapy if they wish.
I don't think you understand that gender dysphoria simply can't be treated in that way. It just does not work and may actually have the opposite of the intended effect.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Transgender people occur naturally, transitioning doesn't. Transitioning is the treatment for gender dysphoria... most treatments aren't "natural" but they still help people and save lives. You keep using an appeal to nature fallacy anyway.

Lol what I said is true, you can research it for yourself. I'm not a liar and I have no interest in lying. And yes... I'm totally the reactionary here.

You seem to be refusing to accept the reality that transgender people are real and transitioning is extremely beneficial to them. I have never once "picked and choosen" what's real. I am quite pragmatic about this situation and topic.

Do I really have to tell you again that gay/lgbt people are not pedophiles or in support of p***philia?
"Transgender people occur naturally"
- Prove it.
"most treatments aren't "natural" but they still help people and save lives."
- Yes, chemotherapy and etc. are not "natural"... so you are equating trans-ism w/diseases now? Interesting....
"I'm not a liar and I have no interest in lying. And yes... I'm totally the reactionary here."
- Ooookaaaayyy
"I am quite pragmatic about this situation and topic."
Except for when you are being "reactionary" eh?
"Do I really have to tell you again that gay/lgbt people are not pedophiles or in support of p***philia?"
See this is a big part of the problem here and quite possibly a symptom of white privilege....
Because you TOLD myself and others about your opinion and we didn't accept it, we must be wrong and in need of you TELLING us AGAIN about your opinion which you wish to present as fact. Because all you need to do is TELL people to think the same thing as you do right? That gets them to change their minds? The links between the lgbt movement and NABLA and other such groups are well documented. There is a concerted effort to merge these two groups and if you care as much about your lgbt movement as you profess on here, perhaps your time and efforts would be better utilized confronting these sick individuals and groups and sorting out what they are doing within your movement.
 

mecca

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- Prove it.
I already have, how many times do I have to repeat myself? A large factor in why they occur is due to hormonal differences in the womb. When a young child tells their parent that they are actually the opposite gender, they were never told to be that way... that just how they naturally are and how their brain works.
Yes, chemotherapy and etc. are not "natural"... so you are equating trans-ism w/diseases now? Interesting....
Nope, it's not a disease. But gender dysphoria is a distressing disorder that is treated and managed through transitioning.
Except for when you are being "reactionary" eh?
I guess you don't understand sarcasm...
See this is a big part of the problem here and quite possibly a symptom of white privilege....
What? White privilege?... that is totally irrelevant and I'm not even white lmao.
Because you TOLD myself and others about your opinion
It's not my opinion, it's a fact. Being gay does not cause you to be in support or in favor of p***philia. Lgbt individuals are against it just like every normal, non-p***phile person out there.
The links between the lgbt movement and NABLA
NAMBLA tried to infiltrate one gay parade and they were rightfully shamed out. They were never allowed back... and no one supports their existence except other pedophiles.
There is a concerted effort to merge these two groups
No, there actually isn't... You are seriously going to listen to a pedo when they try to rationalize their disgusting actions by attempting to equate themselves to lgbt people instead of realizing that there is absolutely no justification for p***philia? r*pe is not a sexual orientation.
perhaps your time and efforts would be better utilized confronting these sick individuals and groups and sorting out what they are doing within your movement
Wow, nice... you are calling me a p***phile supporter now?
 
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TempestOfTempo

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I already have, how many times do I have to repeat myself? A large factor in why they occur is due to hormonal differences in the womb.

Nope, it's not a disease. But gender dysphoria is a distressing disorder that is treated and managed through transitioning.

I guess you don't understand sarcasm...

What? White privilege?... that is totally irrelevant and I'm not even white lmao.

It's not my opinion, it's a fact. Being gay does not cause you to be in support or in favor of p***philia. Lgbt individuals are against it just like every normal, non-p***phile person out there.

NAMBLA tried to infiltrate one gay parade and they were rightfully shamed out. They were never allowed back... and no one supports their existence except other pedophiles. You are seriously going to listen to a pedo when they try to rationalize their disgusting actions by attempting to equate themselves to lgbt people instead of realizing that there is absolutely no justification for p***philia?

Wow, nice... you are calling me a p***phile supporter now?
"Wow, nice... you are calling me a p***phile supporter now?" You and your pathetic, begging-and-bullying-to-be-a-victim status are old hat. Just as you intentionally misquoted me multiple times earlier, you attempt to sandbag this debate with more falsehoods. Never made any such accusation and in fact, I was operating under the assumption that you are NOT down with ped ish. Therefore I was addressing the fact that as a "good" gay supporter, you should be confronting people whom are attempting to hijack your movement. That is unless, of course, its not a hi-jack and has been planned all along. In which case you should be DOUBLE hyped to confront them. As for the rest, save your goofball lies and mis-truths.... any cursory involvement at ANY of the "gay pride" parades around the nation will give you EXACTLY the kind of answer needed to the most pressing question of "how involved with each other are the gay and pedo communities/agendas". If you are being honest, you will admit that there is very little separation from those two camps indeed.
 

mecca

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You and your pathetic, begging-and-bullying-to-be-a-victim status are old hat. Just as you intentionally misquoted me multiple times earlier, you attempt to sandbag this debate with more falsehoods. Never made any such accusation and in fact, I was operating under the assumption that you are NOT down with ped ish. Therefore I was addressing the fact that as a "good" gay supporter, you should be confronting people whom are attempting to hijack your movement. That is unless, of course, its not a hi-jack and has been planned all along. In which case you should be DOUBLE hyped to confront them. As for the rest, save your goofball lies and mis-truths.... any cursory involvement at ANY of the "gay pride" parades around the nation will give you EXACTLY the kind of answer needed to the most pressing question of "how involved with each other are the gay and pedo communities/agendas". If you are being honest, you will admit that there is very little separation from those two camps indeed.
ok
 
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TempestOfTempo

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Being transgender is a natural occurrence and their existence does not harm children. There is nothing wrong with being transgender, just because it's different doesn't mean that it's wrong, harmful, or dangerous.

Biology is a very complex thing and there is always variation that occurs. Being transgender is connected to the prenatal hormones that you get in the womb. The first two months of pregnancy is when sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place... but hormonal differentiation of the brain takes place in the second half of pregnancy. These things occur at different times which means that there can be misalignments. For most people, it turns out fine, but for others they get the wrong hormone or the wrong amount of hormones. This can cause someone to feel like they have a girl's brain in a guy's body or vice versa. It's still a natural occurrence, it's just an abnormal one.

Everything I have stated has been perfectly in line with reality and the proven medical/scientific facts about what transgender people are and what they go through. I have no "mosaic of selfishness" lol. Letting transgender people live their lives in peace is not a selfish stance... When you decide that you think transgender people are too weird to be allowed to be treated normally in society, you are acting very selfishly because you're putting your own feelings before transgender people's well being. Why not just leave them be?... you can't get rid of them and they should be able to have a happy life like everyone else. They shouldn't be facing discrimination just for who they are.

There's a difference between simply exploring the ideas of gender and actually feeling a deep desire to be the opposite sex. Most people are not transgender, but a small minority are. What has been proven to help that group of people is allowing them to live as the gender that their brain says they are. A transgender person greatly benefits from transitioning... a non-transgender person never even thinks about transitioning at all. No one is forcing anyone to be transgender or to transition, that's not possible. If someone does happen to be transgender, they will want to transition in the way that is best and most suitable for them as an individual. Some people only decide to change their name and pronouns and they don't need hormone therapy... some do need it. Some people decide that surgery is the right path and other have no desire for it. It simply depends on what they personally need.

And I have already gone over the fact that transgender adolescents are not undergoing any permanent changes when they transition. They have to wait until they are older and are certain to start anything that can be permanent. Also, adults are not pushing young people into being transgender. When someone's child is trans, the child themselves were the ones who consistently proclaimed to their parents that they were actually the opposite sex. And by the way, gender and sexuality are completely separate.
"And I have already gone over the fact that transgender adolescents are not undergoing any permanent changes when they transition. They have to wait until they are older and are certain to start anything that can be permanent. "
That is an outright LIE!
 

polymoog

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It doesn't prevent the species from reproducing, it may prevent the individual.
but if the entire species were trans, we would all be gone in one generation.

No. It's not classified as a disorder, they can live and enjoy their lives as a trans person.
is it normal to be born and desire to change ones biological sex, therefore preventing the possibiility of reproduction?


I don't think you understand that gender dysphoria simply can't be treated in that way. It just does not work and may actually have the opposite of the intended effect.
disagree 100%. just as people can be de-brainwashed from extreme porn into normal sexual relations, others (in fairness, i cannot say all) can have their minds untwisted to cis-genders. of course, in some states, its illegal for an individual to go for conversion therapy (but fine for an individual to go for trans support groups. that should tell you something.
 
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