The Dumbing Down of America – By Design

DesertRose

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I was reading some of his quotes and they seemed pretty weird. I forgot what it said though.
Pretty sure you would like him mecca if you get around to reading that book.
There is an haunting image in the book of a school bus and a bus for prisoners and it just made you think.
The bells, control of movement and that kids have to ask for permission just to go to the washroom (Isn't that a basic right?)

John Taylor Gatto quotes
“When you take the free will out of education, that turns it into schooling.”
― John Taylor Gatto

“I've noticed a fascinating phenomenon in my thirty years of teaching: schools and schooling are increasingly irrelevant to the great enterprises of the planet. No one believes anymore that scientists are trained in science classes or politicians in civics classes or poets in English classes. The truth is that schools don't really teach anything except how to obey orders. This is a great mystery to me because thousands of humane, caring people work in schools as teachers and aides and administrators, but the abstract logic of the institution overwhelms their individual contributions. Although teachers to care and do work very, very hard, the institution is psychopathic -- it has no conscience. It rings a bell and the young man in the middle of writing a poem must close his notebook and move to a different cell where he must memorize that humans and monkeys derive from a common ancestor.”
― John Taylor Gatto,

“Children learn what they live. Put kids in a class and they will live out their lives in an invisible cage, isolated from their chance at community; interrupt kids with bells and horns all the time and they will learn that nothing is important or worth finishing; ridicule them and they will retreat from human association; shame them and they will find a hundred ways to get even. The habits taught in large-scale organizations are deadly.”
― John Taylor Gatto

“What's gotten in the way of education in the United States is a theory of social engineering that says there is ONE RIGHT WAY to proceed with growing up.”
― John Taylor Gatto,
 

mecca

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Are you sure that it wasn't because his statements contradicted those of your teachers?
No, he doesn't really contradict my teachers, It's not about my teachers. I agree with the idea that the school system is flawed and wasn't actually made to promote learning. I agree with a lot of the things he said and he provided some good information but some stuff he's said I found to be odd.
 
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mecca

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Pretty sure you would like him mecca if you get around to reading that book.
There is an haunting image in the book of a school bus and a bus for prisoners and it just made you think.
The bells, control of movement and that kids have to ask for permission just to go to the washroom (Isn't that a basic right?)
I'm not against him and I do agree with what he said. And yeah I know, school is just like prison, they even serve the same food. That's why there's the idea of the "school to prison pipeline". And if you don't go to jail, you end up working a job for some company... instead of actually having a fulfilling life and a drive for gaining knowledge and instead of making a difference, you're just stuck in a system. That's what happens to most people.
 
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Bacsi

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I'm not against him and I do agree with what he said. And yeah I know, school is just like prison, they even serve the same food. That's why there's the idea of the "school to prison pipeline". And if you don't go to jail, you end up working a job for some company... instead of actually having a fulfilling life and a drive for gaining knowledge and instead of making a difference, you're just stuck in a system. That's what happens to most people.
Sounds like a dystopia in real life...
 

Bacsi

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When I saw US school textbooks, I was totally and utterly schocked . My mind almost blew up. Very weak in overall contents. No systematic approach. Fragmented, like a puzzle with missing pieces. Jumping superficially between subjects without teaching relation between them. Focused on learning of skills mechanically, not on understanding of concepts. Lacks deep fundamental knowledge. No independant problem solving, but excersises following a template. History is skewed. Etc. etc. I can go on and on. Very strange! Now it makes more sense to me.
 
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Bacsi

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I was schocked to study alongside US students... Nice people!!! But their ignorance was mind boggling... One guy studying to have a master's degree who was teaching high school science for 15 years said once "helium is toxic and highly flammable" when I wanted to inhale it from a balloon to fool around changing voice pitch. Man... And I heard things like that all the time. They often didn't _understand_ some pretty basic stuff... Lots of random information in their heads though!
 

Etagloc

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When I saw US school textbooks, I was totally and utterly schocked . My mind almost blew up. Very weak in overall contents. No systematic approach. Fragmented, like a puzzle with missing pieces. Jumping superficially between subjects without teaching relation between them. Focused on learning of skills mechanically, not on understanding of concepts. Lacks deep fundamental knowledge. No independant problem solving, but excersises following a template. History is skewed. Etc. etc. I can go on and on. Very strange! Now it makes more sense to me.
What alternative is there? I'm not denying the existence of alternatives but I haven't seen other textbooks. What have you seen? I can't miss what I've never been exposed to.
 

Bacsi

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What alternative is there? I'm not denying the existence of alternatives but I haven't seen other textbooks. What have you seen? I can't miss what I've never been exposed to.
Most uni level books are good. But secondary ed books are just impossible. Lots of beautiful pictures and colourful fonts (distraction), crappy contents. I looked for good ones and was never able to find anything decent. One needs many many books and to know what to extract in order to really learn well like one should. Maybe good textbooks do exist, I was just not lucky to find them. I did look a lot in libraries and book stores! I've seen some older textbooks in thrift stores and boy were they better. For math, they were not so usable with heavy emphasis on old units of measurement - so confusing.

I ended up ordering textbooks from Russia and used them, though using two languages made it more difficult for my kids. It was like real education compared to crazy nonsense.
 
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Etagloc

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Most uni level books are good. But secondary ed books are just impossible. Lots of beautiful pictures and colourful fonts (distraction), crappy contents. I looked for good ones and was never able to find anything decent. One needs many many books and to know what to extract in order to really learn well like one should. Maybe good textbooks do exist, I was just not lucky to find them. I did look a lot in libraries and book stores! I've seen some older textbooks in thrift stores and boy were they better. For math, they were not so usable with heavy emphasis on old units of measurement - so confusing.

I ended up ordering textbooks from Russia and used them, though using two languages made it more difficult for my kids. It was like real education compared to crazy nonsense.
I thought my college sociology textbook was terrifying... I would rather have the fragmented textbooks you described than anything like the sociology textbook...... sociology was horrifying..... the teacher tried to lead the class in insulting me and trying to humiliate me simply for believing in God (I didn't even mention God but the teacher simply could tell).... and I'm not interested in "learning" I'm a "male oppressor" simply for having a particular biology.... my teacher talked about how he wanted his daughter to be a lesbian..... I was disgusted with the class, with the textbook, with all of it.... the teacher tried to force me to write from a postmodern (ie anti-religious) point of view...... the whole thing was designed to brainwash and how "well" you did was in accordance with how receptible you were towards an ideology pushed on you from above....

The best book is the Quran....

I'm sort of anti-books..... the only book I really trust is the Quran..... at least that I can think of..... the "Dumbing Us Down" book by John Gatto that DR recommends.... I really like the guy...... I don't think he goes far enough in talking about conspiracy stuff but I really want to read the book..... but in any case, I have a lot of books and the only one I really trust is the Quran..... I don't really trust something like 99% of books out there.... but I think that might not be going far enough.... maybe it should be 99.99%........ but then that might not be far enough...... maybe it should be 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%

I am completely serious.......

I like people who don't know anything......
people who know stuff horrify me.....
you can show those people all the facts and evidence in the world
but you can't get them to accept facts and evidence
because they already know stuff....

someone who doesn't know anything- that person can learn.....

I think it seems that the more people are educated
the less intelligent they get......

I mean look at people who are super educated...... they are insane, delusional, dangerous and need to be stopped for the good of society.... those people almost certainly will parrot everything the Illuminati (or whatever you want to call the elite) is pushing

I would like to get rid of literacy....... it warms my heart to think of people not being able to read..... I wonder if learning how to read was a mistake on my part...... I am kidding but I'm serious at the same time......

people who are simple people, who are uneducated, who don't know how to read..... I love those people...... those are the smartest people in my opinion...... I just wish I was as smart as them

now I am kidding when I say "let's get rid of literacy".... I don't want people to think I mean that literally.... but in some sad, bizarre way, I think people have become less in touch with reality as people have become more "educated" and literate..... you talk to people who are super educated, have PHDs and all that.... those people horrify me..... I mean I really listened to my sociology teacher give a talk on how he wants his daughter to become a lesbian....... you have to be seriously "educated" to be that insane..... but you listen to those kind, loving, warm, good people who are "simple" people who are not educated.... I love those people.... I could listen to those people all day.... if I was in Saudi, I might have to call the police on those people... for having stolen my heart : )
 

Bacsi

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I thought my college sociology textbook was terrifying... I would rather have the fragmented textbooks you described than anything like the sociology textbook...... sociology was horrifying..... the teacher tried to lead the class in insulting me and trying to humiliate me simply for believing in God (I didn't even mention God but the teacher simply could tell).... and I'm not interested in "learning" I'm a "male oppressor" simply for having a particular biology.... my teacher talked about how he wanted his daughter to be a lesbian..... I was disgusted with the class, with the textbook, with all of it.... the teacher tried to force me to write from a postmodern (ie anti-religious) point of view...... the whole thing was designed to brainwash and how "well" you did was in accordance with how receptible you were towards an ideology pushed on you from above....

The best book is the Quran....

I'm sort of anti-books..... the only book I really trust is the Quran..... at least that I can think of..... the "Dumbing Us Down" book by John Gatto that DR recommends.... I really like the guy...... I don't think he goes far enough in talking about conspiracy stuff but I really want to read the book..... but in any case, I have a lot of books and the only one I really trust is the Quran..... I don't really trust something like 99% of books out there.... but I think that might not be going far enough.... maybe it should be 99.99%........ but then that might not be far enough...... maybe it should be 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%

I am completely serious.......

I like people who don't know anything......
people who know stuff horrify me.....
you can show those people all the facts and evidence in the world
but you can't get them to accept facts and evidence
because they already know stuff....

someone who doesn't know anything- that person can learn.....

I think it seems that the more people are educated
the less intelligent they get......

I mean look at people who are super educated...... they are insane, delusional, dangerous and need to be stopped for the good of society.... those people almost certainly will parrot everything the Illuminati (or whatever you want to call the elite) is pushing

I would like to get rid of literacy....... it warms my heart to think of people not being able to read..... I wonder if learning how to read was a mistake on my part...... I am kidding but I'm serious at the same time......

people who are simple people, who are uneducated, who don't know how to read..... I love those people...... those are the smartest people in my opinion...... I just wish I was as smart as them

now I am kidding when I say "let's get rid of literacy".... I don't want people to think I mean that literally.... but in some sad, bizarre way, I think people have become less in touch with reality as people have become more "educated" and literate..... you talk to people who are super educated, have PHDs and all that.... those people horrify me..... I mean I really listened to my sociology teacher give a talk on how he wants his daughter to become a lesbian....... you have to be seriously "educated" to be that insane..... but you listen to those kind, loving, warm, good people who are "simple" people who are not educated.... I love those people.... I could listen to those people all day.... if I was in Saudi, I might have to call the police on those people... for having stolen my heart : )
Sociology, oh yes. I was implying more the natural sciences, because it's my cup of tea, but humanities ... Just don't want to go there. Religion of "democracy, human rights, liberalism" etc etc
 
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DesertRose

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I would like to get rid of literacy....... it warms my heart to think of people not being able to read..... I wonder if learning how to read was a mistake on my part...... I am kidding but I'm serious at the same time......
Hey colgate that rant was funny!

What alternative is there? I'm not denying the existence of alternatives but I haven't seen other textbooks. What have you seen? I can't miss what I've never been exposed to.
There are alternatives we have access to books from different countries like Singapore their math program is big for homeschooling and for some private schools. Within the States there are good alternatives like Saxon Math and others for various subjects,

The guy who made Saxon Math was an engineer in the US air force academy who became appalled at the level of mathematical literacy of his students. He has an incremental approach which speaks to the problem @Bacsi brought up about many books that jump or spiral with the subject matter. Moreover, homschoolers have rankings for books for many subjects including curricula from different countries.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Saxon_(educator)
Technique development
"Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, John Saxon spoke out against mathematics education reform efforts that he believed would lead to a disaster in math and science education. He wrote or co-wrote a series of nine mathematics textbooks for kindergarten through high school which use an incremental teaching method often called "Saxon math". According to Saxon in media interviews in the 1980s and early 1990s and documentation coming with the high-school level textbooks, the inclusion of specialised and/or somewhat uncommon words such as "sciolist" in the story problems is intended as a vocabulary builder in preparation for the verbal section of the SAT and similar tests.[4]

The basic philosophy of his approach was incremental development and continuous review. Incremental development meant that larger concepts were broken down into smaller, more easily understood pieces that were introduced over time; continuous review refers to the practice of concepts in cumulative problem sets once they were introduced. As a student completed a new concept, a brief review of the previous chapters and concepts were also tested."

Educators critical of his method felt that the lessons were too drill-oriented and time-consuming, didn't allow students to use calculators, and differed from other methods by not encouraging teamwork or developing creative problem-solving skills.[5]
 
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TempestOfTempo

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Did you see this video......:D:D
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/12/24/wrote-nikki-haley-moron/

Famous russian pranksters Vovan & Lexus played a phone trick on the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley. Presenting themselves as The Prime-Minister of Poland they had a conversation with her that lasted for about 30 minutes. Nikky Haley was informed about the situation in Binomo - an island in the South China Sea: Putin supposedly interfered in their elections (this island doesn't exist for real). Ignorant Ambassador stated in all seriousness she was aware of the situation and confirmed Putin interfered in the elections of Binomo. Though it doesn't exist at all. Haley and the pranksters also discussed Kevin Spacey's harassment towards the President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko and Trump's harassment. Vovan & Lexus are famous for their pranks with Senator McCain and Senator Graham, Congresswoman Maxine Waters, Congressman Adam Shiff, the U.S. Secretary of Energy Rick Perry, the President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko, the President of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko, British singer Elton John and many other politicians and celebrities in Russia and the world.
This is GOLD!!
 

Bacsi

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Hey colgate that rant was funny!



There are alternatives we have access to books from different countries like Singapore their math program is big for homeschooling and for some private schools. Within the States there are good alternatives like Saxon Math and others for various subjects,

The guy who made Saxon Math was an engineer in the US air force academy who became appalled at the level of mathematical literacy of his students. He has an incremental approach which speaks to the problem @Bacsi brought up about many books that jump or spiral with the subject matter. Moreover, homschoolers have rankings for books for many subjects including curricula from different countries.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Saxon_(educator)
Technique development
"Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, John Saxon spoke out against mathematics education reform efforts that he believed would lead to a disaster in math and science education. He wrote or co-wrote a series of nine mathematics textbooks for kindergarten through high school which use an incremental teaching method often called "Saxon math". According to Saxon in media interviews in the 1980s and early 1990s and documentation coming with the high-school level textbooks, the inclusion of specialised and/or somewhat uncommon words such as "sciolist" in the story problems is intended as a vocabulary builder in preparation for the verbal section of the SAT and similar tests.[4]

The basic philosophy of his approach was incremental development and continuous review. Incremental development meant that larger concepts were broken down into smaller, more easily understood pieces that were introduced over time; continuous review refers to the practice of concepts in cumulative problem sets once they were introduced. As a student completed a new concept, a brief review of the previous chapters and concepts were also tested."

Educators critical of his method felt that the lessons were too drill-oriented and time-consuming, didn't allow students to use calculators, and differed from other methods by not encouraging teamwork or developing creative problem-solving skills.[5]
Very very very interesting! Thank you! I'll research more and look into the curriculums you mentioned. Singapore I knew about, but wasn't sure if it's more leaning towards applied mathematics, because their engineers are pretty good, but no substantial achievements in the field of fundamental mathematics. But I'll check them all out!!!
 

z gharib

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The truth is that schools don't really teach anything except how to obey orders.
" THE COVERT CURRICULUM

As work shifted out of the fields and the home, moreover, children had to be prepared for factory life. The early mine, mill, and factory owners of industrializing England discovered, as Andrew Ure wrote in 1835, that it was "nearly impossible to convert persons past the age of puberty, whether drawn from rural or from handicraft occupations, into useful factory hands." If young people could be prefitted to the industrial system, it would vastly ease the problems of industrial discipline later on. The result was another central structure of all Second Wave societies: mass education.

Built on the factory model, mass education taught basic reading, writing, and arithmetic, a bit of history and other subjects. This was the "overt curriculum." But beneath it lay an invisible or "covert curriculum" that was far more basic. It consisted—and still does in most industrial nations—of three courses: one in punctuality, one in obedience, and one in rote, repetitive work. Factory labor demanded workers who showed up on time, especially assembly-line hands. It demanded workers who would take orders from a management hierarchy without questioning. And it demanded men and women prepared to slave away at machines or in offices, performing brutally repetitious operations.

Thus from the mid-nineteenth century on, as the Second Wave cut across country after country, one found a relentless educational progression: children started school at a younger and younger age, the school year became longer and longer (in the United States it climbed 35 percent between 1878 and 1956), and the number of years of compulsory schooling irresistibly increased.

Mass public education was clearly a humanizing step for-ward. As a group of mechanics and workingmen in New York City declared in 1829, "Next to life and liberty, we consider education the greatest blessing bestowed upon mankind." Nevertheless, Second Wave schools machined generation after generation of young people into a pliable, regimented work force of the type required by electromechanical technology and the assembly line. "


THE THIRD WAVE ,alvin toffler
 

Karlysymon

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" THE COVERT CURRICULUM

As work shifted out of the fields and the home, moreover, children had to be prepared for factory life. The early mine, mill, and factory owners of industrializing England discovered, as Andrew Ure wrote in 1835, that it was "nearly impossible to convert persons past the age of puberty, whether drawn from rural or from handicraft occupations, into useful factory hands." If young people could be prefitted to the industrial system, it would vastly ease the problems of industrial discipline later on. The result was another central structure of all Second Wave societies: mass education.

Built on the factory model, mass education taught basic reading, writing, and arithmetic, a bit of history and other subjects. This was the "overt curriculum." But beneath it lay an invisible or "covert curriculum" that was far more basic. It consisted—and still does in most industrial nations—of three courses: one in punctuality, one in obedience, and one in rote, repetitive work. Factory labor demanded workers who showed up on time, especially assembly-line hands. It demanded workers who would take orders from a management hierarchy without questioning. And it demanded men and women prepared to slave away at machines or in offices, performing brutally repetitious operations.

Thus from the mid-nineteenth century on, as the Second Wave cut across country after country, one found a relentless educational progression: children started school at a younger and younger age, the school year became longer and longer (in the United States it climbed 35 percent between 1878 and 1956), and the number of years of compulsory schooling irresistibly increased.

Mass public education was clearly a humanizing step for-ward. As a group of mechanics and workingmen in New York City declared in 1829, "Next to life and liberty, we consider education the greatest blessing bestowed upon mankind." Nevertheless, Second Wave schools machined generation after generation of young people into a pliable, regimented work force of the type required by electromechanical technology and the assembly line. "


THE THIRD WAVE ,alvin toffler
(I can't find the article on depression/anxiety rates at the start of the school year).
https://www.activistpost.com/2018/01/five-ways-schools-destroy-childrens-freedom.html

Gray attributes this to a decline in free play among children. Among the reasons? Longer school hours starting at younger ages, more homework, and more adult-led extracurriculars. Gray also notes that mental illness and suicide among children are skyrocketing. Since 1950, the U.S. rate of suicide for children under 15 has quadrupled. He says that this troubling finding makes sense. Anxiety and depression correlates with a person’s feeling of not having control over his or her life.
 

TempestOfTempo

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(I can't find the article on depression/anxiety rates at the start of the school year).
https://www.activistpost.com/2018/01/five-ways-schools-destroy-childrens-freedom.html

Gray attributes this to a decline in free play among children. Among the reasons? Longer school hours starting at younger ages, more homework, and more adult-led extracurriculars. Gray also notes that mental illness and suicide among children are skyrocketing. Since 1950, the U.S. rate of suicide for children under 15 has quadrupled. He says that this troubling finding makes sense. Anxiety and depression correlates with a person’s feeling of not having control over his or her life.
I also cant find the link to the discussion where I may have posted in another thread regarding a similar statement as to the one I will make now: With the exception of scientific advancements which have obviously evolved over time, students currently graduating public high schools here are rated significantly behind their previous American counterparts all the way back to the 1800s in subjects such as political science and world/national history, spelling and grammar, various artistic disciplines and a host of other subjects including basic math. The students were MUCH more developed then, even with less resources and the advantages of time and scientific development enjoyed by later generations of students. Point blank, our schools are intentionally turning out incomplete at best students. This is NOT to discount or discredit the heroic efforts made by teachers and other staff whom give so much to their kids, but its a broken system, unfair to both pupil and teacher. Betsy DeVos aint helping either........
 

Karlysymon

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I also cant find the link to the discussion where I may have posted in another thread regarding a similar statement as to the one I will make now: With the exception of scientific advancements which have obviously evolved over time, students currently graduating public high schools here are rated significantly behind their previous American counterparts all the way back to the 1800s in subjects such as political science and world/national history, spelling and grammar, various artistic disciplines and a host of other subjects including basic math. The students were MUCH more developed then, even with less resources and the advantages of time and scientific development enjoyed by later generations of students. Point blank, our schools are intentionally turning out incomplete at best students. This is NOT to discount or discredit the heroic efforts made by teachers and other staff whom give so much to their kids, but its a broken system, unfair to both pupil and teacher. Betsy DeVos aint helping either........
Rockefeller didn't want thinkers but workers.
Higher Indoctrination: Universities and Corporate Control

In 1906, Andrew Carnegie endowed a foundation with a grant of 10 million dollars,called the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching (CFAT). From 1906 to 1929, 80% of the members of the executive committee of this foundation maintained some direct connection with a major business or financial corporation either as directors or executive officers. 30% of the executive committee members were attached to companies with membership in either the Morgan-First National or the Rockefeller group. The General Board of Education was similarly chartered by John D. Rockefeller in 1903.
Among the businessmen on his board, between 1903 and 1929, were some of the nation’s most prominent bankers and industrialists,including Andrew Carnegie and John D. Rockefeller Jr. Three-quarters of the lawyers who served on the board were also corporate officers and directors. Among such members, 44% belonged to the Morgan group, 44% to the Rockefeller group, and 12% to the Kuhn-Loeb group.
 
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