Dr. William Campbell destroyed by Dr. Zakir Naik on scientific errors in the Bible MUST WATCH!!

[Daciple]

Look nobody is forcing you to stop sinning... but if you want to be adopted as sons and daughters of God you must repent and stop sinning.

I couldnt watch the video, but I will take floss word about it, and of course the title is easily debunked, the title says salvation isnt by grace but repentance, the bible however says:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

When it comes to this idea that in order to be saved you must stop sinning, the fact is if you actually believe this, then by your own admission you can not be saved, nor will you ever be saved. The facts are you Sin ever single day. What does Scripture say about what Sin is? Most people want to think that Sin is some big outward things one does, like stealing or cussing, or sex ect, however Sin according to the Bible is defined much more strictly.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

So at any moment in life if there is something you know you ought to do but dont do it, that is Sin. This morning you know you ought to dedicate time to the Lord in Prayer, did you do it? Do you do it every single time?

What else does Scripture say?

2 Cor 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Would you like to tell me that you literally take every single thought captive and bring every thought you have into obedience of Christ? If you say yes, well you are a liar, if you say no then you are admitting that you dont do what you know you ought to do therefore you are Sinning, ALL DAY LONG.

Thankfully we know that Salvation come by Grace thru Faith and that Jesus died on the Cross for every single Sin we have or will ever commit, and we can rest assured that if we are Saved and Born Again, that we no longer need to worry about what will happen when we Sin. We know that Jesus has paid the price for us and we are Forgiven. When we do Sin we Repent and cry out for Mercy and God says He will indeed Forgive us.

If you think Salvation comes by Repentance of Sin, then you are forever doomed to Hell becase you will never be able to Repent of all your Sins, it is impossible, the Flesh ONLY craves Sin, there is a battle every day to overcome Sin and the facts are even Peter who lived with Christ still succumbed to Sin, even turning his back on Christ. You want people to think you are better than Peter? Better than all of the Disciples? Better than Paul? You want people to think you are Christ essentially and you are demanding others be Christ in order to be saved, that is nonsense.

If you think you have Repented from all your Sins, then you must believe you are perfectly Righteous, therefore Christ has no use to you anymore. Christ came for the Sick not the Righteous, there is no hope for those who think they are not Sick...

 

[Karlysymon]

As a question of law ...

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
(Exodus 20:4)​

Was the sculptor who engraved those golden winged things, which are thought to be cherubim and therefore angels, exempted from ^ this above commandment?

Iam not aware of (i could be wrong) an incident when the children of Israel had to bow before the Ark or the High Priest, whenever he entered into the Holy of Holies. Besides, the ark was always covered up whenever they were on the move.

Also, both sets of laws were given Moses during his 40-day sojourn atop the mountain. He was expressly shown the heavenly sanctuary and instructed to build after "the pattern I will show you" (Exodus 25:8). It wasn't meant as an object of worship such as the golden calf. The problem is making an idol/graven image to worship.

 

[Haich]

I posted my comment by mistake which just quoted you. I have edited it now.

Obviously you are Muslim and do not study the Bible as the word of God. So you miss certain things and its hard to explain certain things to non Christians who are not as well versed in the Bible.

The Angel of the Lord

The phrase "angel of the Lord" is found 68 times in Scripture. Sometimes it applies to Gabriel who appeared to Daniel, Zacharias, and Mary. But Gabriel is called "an" angel of the Lord (Luke 1:11). He is not referred to as "the" angel of the Lord. Remember that he said to Zacharias, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God," (Luke 1:19). Who is this mighty individual identified as "the angel of the Lord" who performs such prominent roles in the redemption of man?
God the Father created all things through Jesus (Hebrews 1:2; Ephesians 3:9). It is not implausible to assume that if Christ came to earth and became a man in His battle against Satan to save human beings, He might also have in some way identified with the angels to protect them from Satan's evil influence in heaven. In fact, there are several references in Scripture to a mysterious being identified as "the angel of the Lord" before Christ's earthly incarnation. Yet each time He is mentioned, there are clues to His identity. Let's review some of them briefly.

Abraham

God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac on mount Moriah. Just as he was about to plunge the dagger into his son of promise, the angel of the Lord stopped him. "And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, 'Abraham, Abraham:' and he said, 'Here am I.' And he said, 'Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me'" (Genesis 22:11, 12).

It is clear that Abraham was offering his son to God and not to a mere angel. "And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, 'By myself have I sworn,' saith the Lord, 'for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, … because thou hast obeyed my voice'" (Genesis 22:15-18). In recounting this experience of Abraham in Acts 3:25, Peter also identifies this "angel of the Lord" who made a covenant with the Patriarch as God. "Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed."

Jacob

While fleeing from his angry brother Esau, Jacob had a dream in which God confirmed the covenant of Abraham to him. After receiving assurance that God would be with him and bring him back safely to his home in Canaan, Jacob vowed to return to God a tithe of all his increase. He set up the stone he had been using for a pil- low and anointed it with oil to solemnize his vow. Then he named the place Beth-el, or house of God, since God had appeared to him there.

Twenty years later, Jacob was on his way back home, not a penniless fugitive, but a wealthy man. God decided to remind Jacob who had really brought him success. Here's how Jacob recounted the story: "And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob: And I said, Here am I" (Genesis 31:11). In verse 13, this "angel of God" identifies Himself: "I am the God of Beth-el, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me."

Then, when Jacob wrestled with a heavenly being (Genesis 32:22-32), he was given a new name and blessed him. Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved" (verse 30). In the New Testament, Jesus is the one who blesses His people and gives them a new name (Matthew 5:3-12; Revelation 2:17). As you can see, it is becoming increas- ingly clear that the angel of the Lord is Jesus Himself.

When Jacob was on his deathbed blessing Joseph's two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, he used the terms "angel" and "God" interchangeably. "God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day, The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads" (Genesis 48:15, 16).

The Scriptures are very clear there is neither a redeemer nor saviour but God. "I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no saviour; Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer" (Isaiah 43:11, 14). Once again we see that the angel who redeemed Jacob is another name for our Redeemer, Jesus!

Moses

Moses saw a burning bush that was not consumed. "And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush" (Exodus 3:2). Verse 4 identifies this angel: "God called unto him out of the midst of the bush." And in verse 6 He identifies Himself again. "I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." The angel of the Lord identifies Himself as God!


There are many more examples of "the angel of God" in the Old testament. That's how we know it is God Jacob wrestled with. Jacob himself knew it was God and not an angel and moreover he did not die. There is no ambiguity at all but as I'm sure many Christians have told you here, you will not understand the Bible if you don't ask Jesus for understanding. We cannot of ourselves understand the wisdom of the Bible without guidance from God. The Bible says in Ephesians 6:19 that the gospel is a mystery. We can only understand the deep mystery when Jesus reveals it to us. Jesus explains the mystery by revealing Himself in us. His word is vitality to us now and eternal life. John 1:1-5, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."

We believe Abraham was about to sacrifice his son for God which then was transformed into a ram. We also believe God interacted with Moses, but it was a voice and it wasn't God in a different form.

These narratives we accept because they are in the Qur'an and they are in line with the nature of God. These events don't prove God transformed into a human, whilst still God and wrestled with Jacob. If I accept your narrative, you're effectively saying God was defeated by a mortal, which makes no sense.

Plus the angel of the Lord and the Lord are two completely different terms....

 

[phipps]

We believe Abraham was about to sacrifice his son for God which then was transformed into a ram. We also believe God interacted with Moses, but it was a voice and it wasn't God in a different form.

These narratives we accept because they are in the Qur'an and they are in line with the nature of God. These events don't prove God transformed into a human, whilst still God and wrestled with Jacob. If I accept your narrative, you're effectively saying God was defeated by a mortal, which makes no sense.

Plus the angel of the Lord and the Lord are two completely different terms....

Please don't tell us Christians what means what in the Bible. You don't know because you're not a Christian and have not studied the Bible deeply and don't even know how it correlates with itself from Genesis to Revelation. If I argued with you over something in the Quran and told you what it means even though I am not well versed in the Quran I would be wrong. I will repost part of what @Karlysymon said to you because you have limited God. In your human wisdom you think you know what God should and shouldn't do. "God's ability to interact with His creation anyway He so chooses doesn't nullify His status as God. He ever remains the Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient One. I think this is kinda like "men aren't supposed to cry because they are men" view thus God isn't supposed to be this or that because He is God."

 

[Serveto]

Please don't tell us Christians what means what in the Bible. You don't know because you're not a Christian and have not studied the Bible deeply and don't even know how it correlates with itself from Genesis to Revelation. If I argued with you over something in the Quran and told you what it means even though I am not well versed in the Quran I would be wrong. I will repost part of what @Karlysymon said to you because you have limited God. In your human wisdom you think you know what God should and shouldn't do. "God's ability to interact with His creation anyway He so chooses doesn't nullify His status as God. He ever remains the Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient One. I think this is kinda like "men aren't supposed to cry because they are men" view thus God isn't supposed to be this or that because He is God."

With all due respect, and though @Haich is clearly capable of speaking for herself, in her statement, which you quoted, I heard her include the conditional "If I accept your [Christian] narrative." In that statement, I don't hear her trying to tell Christians what means what in the Bible. To my understanding, hers is an important qualifier, that if she were to accept the Christian narrative, then certain other things would follow.

My thus far unconfirmed hunch is that Muslims probably would find nothing particularly objectionable to this statement, this portion of the epistle, by Paul, which seems in line with the monotheistic, maybe more specifically Semitic, instinct. At any rate, this is often what I hear expressed, though certainly in different words, from the Islamic/Muslim side of the aisle:

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."
(Romans 1:21-25)​

A significant difference, I would venture a guess, between (generally speaking) Christian and Muslim responses to these verses is that Christians would hold that Jesus, being eternal and "consubstantial" with God, was uncreated, and thus is not one of "the creatures" in question, but Muslims, referring to the Quran as their criterion for truth, which is one of the things which distinguishes them as Muslims, after all, would say otherwise.

​

 

[Haich]

Please don't tell us Christians what means what in the Bible. You don't know because you're not a Christian and have not studied the Bible deeply and don't even know how it correlates with itself from Genesis to Revelation. If I argued with you over something in the Quran and told you what it means even though I am not well versed in the Quran I would be wrong. I will repost part of what @Karlysymon said to you because you have limited God. In your human wisdom you think you know what God should and shouldn't do. "God's ability to interact with His creation anyway He so chooses doesn't nullify His status as God. He ever remains the Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient One. I think this is kinda like "men aren't supposed to cry because they are men" view thus God isn't supposed to be this or that because He is God."

I'm looking for clarity and you haven't provided any. You can't claim God wrestled with Jacob if the jews believe it was an angel in the form of a man, sent by God. This is something which ibn kathir, a Syrian historian and classical scholar of Islam, details in his book.

You expect me to believe God physically wrestled with Jacob and yet you've failed to prove this with clearly worded verses. I do not believe your biblical interpretation of who God is and what he chooses to do, are in line with His nature.

I've interacted with you before and you seem more intent on defending your interpretations, instead of answering my questions with clear evidence. I mean, did you not state that Jesus was fully human but fully God at the same time? I mean, it doesn't get more confusing and absurd than that. Duality isn't a quality of the supreme Creator.

I'll leave you to your confusion, there really is no point discussing God with someone who believes He became a man and died, wrestled with a prophet (who He sent) and throughout all this still remained in the heavens as The Father.

Yh makes total sense, I'm the mad one.

God bless.

 

[Haich]

With all due respect, and though @Haich is clearly capable of speaking for herself, in her statement, which you quoted, I heard her include the conditional "If I accept your [Christian] narrative." In that statement, I don't hear her trying to tell Christians what means what in the Bible. To my understanding, hers is an important qualifier, that if she were to accept the Christian narrative, then certain other things would follow.

My thus far unconfirmed hunch is that Muslims probably would find nothing particularly objectionable to this statement, this portion of the epistle, by Paul, which seems in line with the monotheistic, maybe more specifically Semitic, instinct. At any rate, this is often what I hear expressed, though certainly in different words, from the Islamic/Muslim side of the aisle:

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."​

(Romans 1:21-25)​

A significant difference, I would venture a guess, between Christian and Muslim responses to these verses is that Christians would hold that Jesus, being eternal and "consubstantial" with God, was uncreated, and thus is not one of "the creatures" in question, but Muslims, referring to the Quran as their criterion for truth, which is one of the things which distinguishes them as Muslims, after all, would say otherwise.

​

I'm glad you understand my post Serveto. Thank you

Isn't the belief that Jesus' spirit was from God (therefore uncreated) and his flesh was created? If so, I'd assume Jesus would still qualify as a worshipped creation, put above the Father.

 

[phipps]

With all due respect, and though @Haich is clearly capable of speaking for herself, in her statement, which you quoted, I heard her include the conditional "If I accept your [Christian] narrative." In that statement, I don't hear her trying to tell Christians what means what in the Bible. To my understanding, hers is an important qualifier, that if she were to accept the Christian narrative, then certain other things would follow.

My thus far unconfirmed hunch is that Muslims probably would find nothing particularly objectionable to this statement, this portion of the epistle, by Paul, which seems in line with the monotheistic, maybe more specifically Semitic, instinct. At any rate, this is often what I hear expressed, though certainly in different words, from the Islamic/Muslim side of the aisle:

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."​

(Romans 1:21-25)​

A significant difference, I would venture a guess, between (generally speaking) Christian and Muslim responses to these verses is that Christians would hold that Jesus, being eternal and "consubstantial" with God, was uncreated, and thus is not one of "the creatures" in question, but Muslims, referring to the Quran as their criterion for truth, which is one of the things which distinguishes them as Muslims, after all, would say otherwise.

​

This is the bit what @Haich posted that I replied to. "Plus the angel of the Lord and the Lord are two completely different terms....". I explained to her what it means in the Bible not according to what she thinks and she said it means something else. that why I asked her not tell us what we mean by what when she's not well versed in the Bible. I ignored most of her post because she clearly disagrees and I'm not about to argue with her over that.

 

[phipps]

I'm glad you understand my post Serveto. Thank you

Isn't the belief that Jesus' spirit was from God (therefore uncreated) and his flesh was created? If so, I'd assume Jesus would still qualify as a worshipped creation, put above the Father.

You said, "Plus the angel of the Lord and the Lord are two completely different terms....". I explained to you that those terms are the same in the Bible and I was responsing to a comment you had made about how Jacob did not wrestle with God but an angel. I understand you disagree with me and other Christians on here and that's fine, but please don't tell us what means what in the Bible just like I'm not going to do the same with you over the Quran. I did not respond to most of your other comment because you the Bible and the Quran are different books and neither of us are going to agree on the different theologies. Apart from that bit of your comment, I would not have responded altogether.

 

[Karlysymon]

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
(Exodus 20:4)​

I am reading the wording of the specific commandment, and though I know that there are further prohibitions against worshiping the "works of one's hands," idols, etc., in the Law, I note that this one stipulates, is a prohibition against making, engraving, any graven image in the first place. I don't know what the words "unto thee" mean, exactly, and maybe that is the clause which contains the exemption? At any rate, and this I say by still acknowledging your reference to Exodus 25:8, which I have duly considered, it might be seen as a command being made, on one hand, and then being broken, circumvented or otherwise annulled on the other.

I see. So should we completely discount the sculpting profession? In your opinion, should Christians refrain take up the profession since it involves making graven images, not necessarily "unto thee" but graven images nevertheless?

God also understands the human heart. Even though the commandment explicitly states "graven images", anything else can usurp God's place in one's life. Seems like worship of self, money, career, etc is what passes for graven images these days. Paul talked about those whose "god is their stomach" (Phillipians 3:19) or greed equating idolatry (Ephesians 5:5). Anyone and anything can be turned into an idol. @LostCoin said every single sin is breaking one of the Ten in any given form.

There is precedent for that too, it seems, because, as I recall, soon after issuing Moses the Sabbath Commandment, only one generation later, his successors, Joshua and Company, are told to march around Jericho not only on the 7th Day, but, like, 7 x 7 times on the Sabbath.

Maybe its similar to the case Christ quoted, of David and his men picking grain on the Sabbath?
But now i wonder. Since God finally "got it right", with the Final Revelation, was Sabbath sacredness transferred to Friday? I mean, thats what the Catholic church did, that the faithful should honor Sunday.
And if Friday should be honored as the Sabbath was, should Muslims fight on Friday, if there is a war?

Regarding how some of these engraved images, such as Moses' "brass serpent," for instance, are said to have become objects of Israelite worship, that is to say, in this case, a snake idol, what later became of said snake may be seen by clicking or tapping here.

Hezekiah did something about it

 

[Haich]

You said, "Plus the angel of the Lord and the Lord are two completely different terms....". I explained to you what it means in the Bible and you're telling me that that's not what it means. I understand you disagree with me but please don't tell us what means what in the Bible.

Listen, i was continuing my premise of taking a Christian narrative. If I were a Christian, in addition to the overall comments I made which you aren't quoting, this would be my reading of the verse.

Looking back at what you wrote, it actually makes no sense. The small difference in articles, the and a, is what makes you believe Gabriel is an angel of the Lord, but someone else is the angel of the Lord, namely, Jesus?

In Islam, the view would probably be Gabriel is The angel of the Lord as he's considered the archangel, leader of angels and God's highest ranked angel with the most responsibility.

I mean, really? Indefinite and definite article connotations is what you're using to prove that Jesus was the angel of the Lord?

 

[phipps]

Listen, i was continuing my premise of taking a Christian narrative. If I were a Christian, in addition to the overall comments I made which you aren't quoting, this would be my reading of the verse.

Looking back at what you wrote, it actually makes no sense. The small difference in articles, the and a, is what makes you believe Gabriel is an angel of the Lord, but someone else is the angel of the Lord, namely, Jesus?

In Islam, the view would probably be Gabriel is The angel of the Lord as he's considered the archangel, leader of angels and God's highest ranked angel with the most responsibility.

I mean, really? Indefinite and definite article connotations is what you're using to prove that Jesus was the angel of the Lord?

They don't make sense to you and that's fine. You're not a Christian and not well versed in the Bible. I showed you proof from the Bible and the pattern of it and how the Bible talks about the angel of the Lord and other angels. You disagree and thats okay but please refrain from telling me and other Christians what means what in the Bible. I found that rude tbh. Lets agree to disagree and move on. This was a discussion and exchange of what Islam and Christianity teach but it seems we've reached an impasse. God bless.

 

[Haich]

They don't make sense to you and that's fine. You're not a Christian and not well versed in the Bible. I showed you proof from the Bible and the pattern of it and how the Bible talks about the angel of the Lord and other angels. You disagree and thats okay but please refrain from telling me and other Christians what means what in the Bible. I found that rude tbh. Lets agree to disagree and move on. This was a discussion and exchange of what Islam and Christianity teach but it seems we've reached an impasse. God bless.

Right, I guess you didn't understand my posts and that's fine. We'll leave it there.

 

[TokiEl]

Sorry Toki, if this is what you believed, you are NOT SAVE nor has been BORN AGAIN. If you think salvation is by getting rid of all the sins in your life, I highly doubt you will ever be save. You've probably sinned yesterday, last week and will sin again tomorrow and next week. Don't lie to yourself that somehow you can earn your way into heaven by stop sinning. It take humility to admit you're a sinner and deserved the full penalty of sins in HELL. The ONLY route to salvation is by FAITH + GRACE and will NEVER be faith + works. You need to pray from your heart and let the LORD know only by HIS GRACE you can be save, give Him all that responsibilities regarding your salvation and you will be rejoiced.

You do not believe in Jesus Christ if you do not obey Him. It's only lip service...

If you believe in Him and still continue in sins... then you have not really received Him.

What is it John says...? Or have you erased that part from your Bibles ?



1 John 3 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

 

[TokiEl]

I couldnt watch the video, but I will take floss word about it, and of course the title is easily debunked, the title says salvation isnt by grace but repentance, the bible however says:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

He might have worded the title better but it is a message of repentance. How can you claim faith in Him if you don't obey Him ?


Matthew 4 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

John 14 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

When it comes to this idea that in order to be saved you must stop sinning, the fact is if you actually believe this, then by your own admission you can not be saved, nor will you ever be saved. The facts are you Sin ever single day. What does Scripture say about what Sin is? Most people want to think that Sin is some big outward things one does, like stealing or cussing, or sex ect, however Sin according to the Bible is defined much more strictly.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Christians ought to know to do good.


1 Peter 1 14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

2 Cor 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Would you like to tell me that you literally take every single thought captive and bring every thought you have into obedience of Christ? If you say yes, well you are a liar, if you say no then you are admitting that you dont do what you know you ought to do therefore you are Sinning, ALL DAY LONG.

You're actually saying that the standard of God is set too high for you. And since you can't clear the bar you either believe other people can't as well or you would like to drag them down to your level of underachievements.

Thankfully we know that Salvation come by Grace thru Faith and that Jesus died on the Cross for every single Sin we have or will ever commit, and we can rest assured that if we are Saved and Born Again, that we no longer need to worry about what will happen when we Sin. We know that Jesus has paid the price for us and we are Forgiven. When we do Sin we Repent and cry out for Mercy and God says He will indeed Forgive us.

Why are you even disagreeing with repentance when your last sentence above is about repentance ?

If you think Salvation comes by Repentance of Sin, then you are forever doomed to Hell becase you will never be able to Repent of all your Sins, it is impossible, the Flesh ONLY craves Sin, there is a battle every day to overcome Sin and the facts are even Peter who lived with Christ still succumbed to Sin, even turning his back on Christ. You want people to think you are better than Peter? Better than all of the Disciples? Better than Paul? You want people to think you are Christ essentially and you are demanding others be Christ in order to be saved, that is nonsense.

If you think you have Repented from all your Sins, then you must believe you are perfectly Righteous, therefore Christ has no use to you anymore. Christ came for the Sick not the Righteous, there is no hope for those who think they are not Sick...

Once you were sick and in need of a physician... but when Christ comes into your life you're not sick anymore.

You love to point out errors and mistakes in His apostles when they did not yet have the Holy spirit...

Stop making excuses for sins and start to be holy.

 

[TokiEl]

I'll leave you to your confusion, there really is no point discussing God with someone who believes He became a man and died, wrestled with a prophet (who He sent) and throughout all this still remained in the heavens as The Father.

The Father and the Son are not the same Persons.

One is God and the other is God.

 

[Haich]

One is God and the other is God.

 

[TokiEl]

View attachment 14156

L0L.



Psalm 110 1A Psalm of David. The LORD said to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”



Matthew 22 41While the Pharisees were assembled, Jesus questioned them: 42“What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is He?”

“David’s,” they answered.

43Jesus said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him Lord? For he says:

44‘The Lord said to my Lord,

“Sit at My right hand,

until I put Your enemies

under Your feet.”’

45So if David calls Him Lord, how can He be David’s son?”

46No one was able to answer a word, and from that day on no one dared to question Him any further."



Acts 7 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

 

[TokiEl]

We believe Abraham was about to sacrifice his son for God which then was transformed into a ram. We also believe God interacted with Moses, but it was a voice and it wasn't God in a different form.

L0L.


Numbers 12 1Then Miriam and Aaron criticized Moses because of the Cushite woman he had married, for he had taken a Cushite wife. 2“Does the LORD speak only through Moses?” they said. “Does He not also speak through us?” And the LORD heard this.

3Now Moses was a very humble man, more so than any man on the face of the earth.

4And suddenly the LORD said to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, “You three, come out to the Tent of Meeting.” So the three went out, 5and the LORD came down in a pillar of cloud, stood at the entrance to the Tent, and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When both of them had stepped forward, 6He said,

“Hear now My words:

If there is a prophet among you,

I, the LORD, will reveal Myself to him in a vision,

I will speak to him in a dream;

7not so with My servant Moses;

he is faithful in all My house.

8I speak with him face to face,

clearly and not in riddles;

he sees the form of the LORD.

Why then were you unafraid to speak against My servant Moses?” 9So the anger of the LORD burned against them, and He departed.

 

[TokiEl]

I'm glad you understand my post Serveto. Thank you

Isn't the belief that Jesus' spirit was from God (therefore uncreated) and his flesh was created? If so, I'd assume Jesus would still qualify as a worshipped creation, put above the Father.

Your flesh is a temporary encasement of you.

Likewise it was a temporary encasement of God... and after His crucifixion on the third day His temporary encasement was glorified into something entirely altogether otherworldly.