Dr. William Campbell destroyed by Dr. Zakir Naik on scientific errors in the Bible MUST WATCH!!

[TokiEl]

@TokiEl

To imagine that there was no salvation for those who looked forward to the coming of the Messiah would be a very odd reading of scripture. E.g. Genesis 15:6, deferring to Abraham.

"And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness"

So before the Messiah was born it was enough to believe that one day He would show up and say or do something to save them ?

Well He showed up alright and paid for their sins with His blood.

But have you read anywhere in the Old Testament where God state that salvation is believing in the coming of the Messiah ?

Additionally, to imagine that the message of God had not gone out to cultures wider than the Hebrews would again be incorrect. The nations immediately in contact with them would know there was something very different about the God of the Hebrews and have to make a decision on what that meant for them. There are also evidences of an awareness of a distinctly Judeo-Christian concept of God in cultures you would not expect. E.g. Native American Indians (great book btw)

I think there are First Nations from one or more of the ten Israeli tribes.

But the Gospel of Jesus Christ i don't think they heard about before the age of discovery.

Now i'm not saying do not believe the Good News. But i am saying repent or you will all likewise perish.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

So before the Messiah was born it was enough to believe that one day He would show up and say or do something to save them ?

Well He showed up alright and paid for their sins with His blood.

But have you read anywhere in the Old Testament where God state that salvation is believing in the coming of the Messiah ?





I think there are First Nations from one or more of the ten Israeli tribes.

But the Gospel of Jesus Christ i don't think they heard about before the age of discovery.

Now i'm not saying do not believe the Good News. But i am saying repent or you will all likewise perish.

Do you believe that there are various "dispensations" in scripture?

https://www.gotquestions.org/seven-dispensations.html

 

[TokiEl]

Do you believe that there are various "dispensations" in scripture?

https://www.gotquestions.org/seven-dispensations.html

You start to sound like a theologian.

Where in the Old Testament do God state that salvation is believing in the Messiah ?

God is willing to forgive our sins since He laid them all on Jesus Christ.

And what did Jesus say ? Repent and receive forgiveness for your sins !

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You start to sound like a theologian.

Where in the Old Testament do God state that salvation is believing in the Messiah ?

God is willing to forgive our sins since He laid them all on Jesus Christ.

And what did Jesus say ? Repent and receive forgiveness for your sins !

I think there is a time to think like a theologian ;-) put more basically, did God deal with people in such a way through history that if they were faithful to Him, they might inherit eternal life?

By considering dispensations as examples of what "obedience to God" looked like at various points in time, you begin to understand His unfolding plan for the redemption of his lost kids.

If God were to send His Son at a particular time in history, there would of course be a time "before" and a time "after", but from the very outset, there was a path of obedience and one of rebellion.

 

[TokiEl]

I think there is a time to think like a theologian ;-) put more basically, did God deal with people in such a way through history that if they were faithful to Him, they might inherit eternal life?

By considering dispensations as examples of what "obedience to God" looked like at various points in time, you begin to understand His unfolding plan for the redemption of his lost kids.

Either we pay for our own sins or we let Jesus Christ pay them for us.

We pay for our own sins by refusing to repent and we let Jesus Christ pay them for us by accepting repentance.

Repenting is not changing from unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ but regretting the wrong we've done and begin to do right.

And from Adam to this day everybody everywhere had and still has that shot at salvation.

 

[TokiEl]

The only reason our repentance is not in vain is because God was born into the world of man to atone or cover for our crimes with His blood.

If hypothetically God was not born into our world to atone or cover for our crimes with His blood... than no amount of repentance on our part would transfer our sins unto Him. We would have no option but to pay for our owns sins ourselves.

And that would be the eternal end of all of us... as we have all sinned.

 

[phipps]

I think there is a time to think like a theologian ;-) put more basically, did God deal with people in such a way through history that if they were faithful to Him, they might inherit eternal life?

By considering dispensations as examples of what "obedience to God" looked like at various points in time, you begin to understand His unfolding plan for the redemption of his lost kids.

If God were to send His Son at a particular time in history, there would of course be a time "before" and a time "after", but from the very outset, there was a path of obedience and one of rebellion.

Thanks for that. Can I just add to that. These are not my words and they explain better than I can about how all of us are saved by Grace since the beginning.

"The Bible holds forth only one beautiful, perfect plan for anybody to be saved, and that is by grace through faith. Every single soul among the redeemed will be a sinner saved by grace.

Those who entered into salvation in the Old Testament were those who trusted the merits of the blood of Jesus Christ, and they demonstrated their faith by bringing a lamb and slaying it. They looked forward in faith to the atoning death of Jesus. We look back in faith to the same death and are saved in exactly the same way. Be very certain that the entire redeemed host throughout eternity will be singing the same song of deliverance, exalting the Lamb slain from the foundations of the world."

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

The only reason our repentance is not in vain is because God was born into the world of man to atone or cover for our crimes with His blood.

If hypothetically God was not born into our world to atone or cover for our crimes with His blood... than no amount of repentance on our part would transfer our sins unto Him. We would have no option but to pay for our owns sins ourselves.

And that would be the eternal end of all of us... as we have all sinned.

OK...

Given that God gave Moses the Law and the Commandments, if people were to have followed them, and presented sacrifices as evidence of their repentance at their shortcomings, why did Jesus have to come at all if adherence to the law and the hope that our obedience and contrition is enough...

What do you understand by the significance of "original sin" or "adoption"?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Thanks for that. Can I just add to that. These are not my words and they explain better than I can about how all of us are saved by Grace since the beginning.

"The Bible holds forth only one beautiful, perfect plan for anybody to be saved, and that is by grace through faith. Every single soul among the redeemed will be a sinner saved by grace.

Those who entered into salvation in the Old Testament were those who trusted the merits of the blood of Jesus Christ, and they demonstrated their faith by bringing a lamb and slaying it. They looked forward in faith to the atoning death of Jesus. We look back in faith to the same death and are saved in exactly the same way. Be very certain that the entire redeemed host throughout eternity will be singing the same song of deliverance, exalting the Lamb slain from the foundations of the world."

Revelation 15

3And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

4Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

 

[TokiEl]

If God were to send His Son at a particular time in history, there would of course be a time "before" and a time "after", but from the very outset, there was a path of obedience and one of rebellion.

God laid on Jesus Christ the inequity of us all.

The crimes of those before Him and after.

So God is willing to forgive the sins of Adam and me and everybody in between.

If he i and they will receive it.

How do we receive forgiveness for our sins ? That is the million dollar question isn't it.

I can only convey what Christ said... Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand.

Now i've noticed some say that repent is to change from unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ... and i do'nt know about you but that gave me a big L0L.

 

[phipps]

Revelation 15

3And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

4Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

I pray that we all follow Christ in faith and be among those singing that beautiful song for all eternity.

 

[TokiEl]

OK...

Given that God gave Moses the Law and the Commandments, if people were to have followed them, and presented sacrifices as evidence of their repentance at their shortcomings, why did Jesus have to come at all if adherence to the law and the hope that our obedience and contrition is enough...

What do you understand by the significance of "original sin" or "adoption"?

I don't think you read what i write. Or you do not understand what i type.

When you can ask me why did Jesus have to come at all... then you do not take the time to read what i write.

I have in fact said numerous times that we would all repent in vain if not for Christ covering for our crimes with His blood.


Israel had the Ten Commandments... but they were busy spilling animal blood because most constantly broke Them. And when they repented they were forgiven. But animal blood do not forgive sins so it was all a dress rehearsal until God himself would cover for not only the sins of Israel but the whole world past present and future.

And so at all times everywhere repenting is receiving God's forgiveness of our sins.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I don't think you read what i write. Or you do not understand what i type.

When you can ask me why did Jesus have to come at all... then you do not take the time to read what i write.

I have in fact said numerous times that we would all repent in vain if not for Christ covering for our crimes with His blood.


Israel had the Ten Commandments... but they were busy spilling animal blood because most constantly broke Them. And when they repented they were forgiven. But animal blood do not forgive sins so it was all a dress rehearsal until God himself would cover for not only the sins of Israel but the whole world past present and future.

And so at all times everywhere repenting is receiving God's forgiveness of our sins.

Perhaps I don't understand quite where you are coming from, @TokiEl ...

Fortunately for all of us, the Lord is the one with "whom we have to do", we don't have to understand our brothers and sisters entirely in order to be born again into the same family. God bless you in your journey.

 

[TokiEl]

Perhaps I don't understand quite where you are coming from, @TokiEl ...

Fortunately for all of us, the Lord is the one with "whom we have to do", we don't have to understand our brothers and sisters entirely in order to be born again into the same family. God bless you in your journey.

Thnx for the well wishes at right back at you.

I'm coming from a place where i got words to them that have not shut the window of opportunity to sin but think they might be punished for it here but at least enter into the Kingdom of God as an unrepentant adulterer murderer perjurer etc etc.

Do not be deceived for you will not enter unless you repent.

You believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Very well and great as you now have the incentive and obligation to stop sinning.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Thnx for the well wishes at right back at you.

I'm coming from a place where i got words to them that have not shut the window of opportunity to sin but think they might be punished for it here but at least enter into the Kingdom of God as an unrepentant adulterer murderer perjurer etc etc.

Do not be deceived for you will not enter unless you repent.

You believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Very well and great as you now have the incentive and obligation to stop sinning.

As in 1 John 3?

1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[TokiEl]

As in 1 John 3?

1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Why do you believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ ?

And i'm not asking you specifically Red but in general. Is it because you like the idea of sinning in eternal security ? Does beliving in Jesus Christ ease your conscience when sinning ?Or it's nice to have the opportunity to sin and still be forgiven ?

But this is Babylon christinsanity.


Yes you used to sin before you believed in Jesus Christ... but now you're not supposed to sin any more.

Is that too hard to hear ?

How can you sin with the Holy spirit within you ? Is it even possible...?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Why do you believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ ?

And i'm not asking you specifically Red but in general. Is it because you like the idea of sinning in eternal security ? Does beliving in Jesus Christ ease your conscience when sinning ?Or it's nice to have the opportunity to sin and still be forgiven ?

But this is Babylon christinsanity.


Yes you used to sin before you believed in Jesus Christ... but now you're not supposed to sin any more.

Is that too hard to hear ?

How can you sin with the Holy spirit within you ? Is it even possible...?

What about these words from 1 John 1

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

 

[Serveto]

Either we pay for our own sins or we let Jesus Christ pay them for us.

We pay for our own sins by refusing to repent and we let Jesus Christ pay them for us by accepting repentance.

Repenting is not changing from unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ but regretting the wrong we've done and begin to do right.

And from Adam to this day everybody everywhere had and still has that shot at salvation.

I see your point, that repentance is a common factor to both the Old and New Testaments, but how does this following verse tie in to the overall, and I must say complicated, "plan" of salvation?

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
(Romans 10:9)​

I rather like this one, when taken in isolation, "out of context," that is, because it says nothing about having to believe in, or accept, the idea of the atoning properties of blood: be it animal, human or perfect human. I think, if I were a non-Christian Jew in the present era, and religious, of course, I would be a Reformed Jew, and if in the era immediately prior to Jesus Christ, I would have been an Essene, among the Qumran sect, because of what I consider to be their progressive, yet scriptural, stance on this very topic, reported in this post {click here}, so I won't repeat. It seems the Essenes were sort of proto-protestants, staying far from Jerusalem, rebelling against what they considered to be the decadent, corrupt Levitical priesthood, and to interpretations of a book bearing their name, Leviticus.

Furthermore, and I am just being logical here and am cutting to the chase, not being glib, and it's an open question to all Christians, if all of this running about trying to "soul win" and get people saved is thought to be a remedy, or solution to the problem of "original sin," the sin we either commit or inherit by being born, wouldn't it be as or more effective to distribute contraceptive devices and encourage people to stop giving birth to original sinners in the first place?

... God's people keep His commandments and exercise the faith of Jesus ...

I'm not sure, though I have been reading a lot of the discussions on the topic both here and in other threads, and while I moreover appreciated your post in total if here I quote it only in part, I think you might, just might, have triggered a few resident, participating Christians into thinking "works based" and thus false gospel.

_______________________
Edit to add: pay no attention to the number in my "Messages" count. I think it's temporary, a momentary obstruction, and I will get over it, like many of you clearly have .

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Serveto

"Edit to add: pay no attention to the number in my "Messages" count. I think it's temporary, a momentary obstruction, and I will get over it, like many of you clearly have"

Revelation 13 parallels your current count - has the "Man of Sin" been revealed right here on VCF?! ;-)

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

There, or I should say here, with this post, I should have fixed it (the number). Whew!

Another false alarm!!!!