Dr. William Campbell destroyed by Dr. Zakir Naik on scientific errors in the Bible MUST WATCH!!

[Kung Fu]

Did an angel physically kill the firstborn in the last plague of Egypt?

How does an angel killing the firstborn equate to a human wrestling with God?

Did the firstborn put up a fight until dawn and did they beat the angels....plot twist lol.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

How does an angel killing the firstborn equate to a human wrestling with God?

Simply that the "supernatural" can intervene into our reality as God chooses. He can just as easily send an angel as enter it himself, either walking with Adam in the garden or (and I know this won't sit well), sending His Son.

 

[LostCoin]

Absolute bullshit. People like Thunderian and other crazy Texan style Christians have repeatedly said that faith alone in Jesus Christ and him dying for your sins will save you regardless of how many kids you have raped and villages you have pillaged. There are Christians out there right now that wholeheartedly believe Jesus Christ is their Lord and that he died for them but yet are some of the worst people out their in terms of morality and lifestyle and would be considered "saved" under your style of Christian doctrine or am I wrong?

Well, you are right and you are wrong. You are oversimplifying and over-exaggerating in this example. However, I will assume your question is sincere and so I will address it:

Over and over in the Bible there are many verses which make it clear that God does not look at the outside of a person, but rather at the heart. Since only He can see a person‘s heart, only He is qualified to judge whether or not the person believes “in their heart“ that Jesus died for their sins and grant forgiveness. Do Christians stop sinning once they have accepted Jesus? No, of course not. That would be cool, but I don’t get to be free of sin until after I die and enter heaven. Obviously, if I truly believe that Jesus died for my sins I would WANT to stop doing anything and everything that offends Him. I have been a Christian for most of my life, but in my earlier years I committed many sins against Jesus before I finally decided to stop being selfish and living for myself and start living more for Him. Am I perfect today? Not by a long shot. But I certainly don’t do the things I used to do before I gave my life to Christ.

To cite an extreme example of r*pe etc and say a person who is a Christian would commit such a heinous act is pretty silly. If I continued to commit major sins, it’s safe to say I haven’t TRULY accepted Christ. Could I be a rapist and accept Christ and be forgiven? Yes. Could I continue to be a rapist after that? No. That would indicate I obviously HAVEN’T accepted Christ and experienced any change in my heart. It would be kind of like saying I believe in gravity and its effects and then turn around and walk off the top of a building. I probably don’t actually believe in gravity if that’s the case.

Yes, the Bible teaches no sin is unforgivable. There is no “exceptions” list given. As unpalatable as that may be to us humans, you have to look at it from the perspective of God. He created each and every person that has ever lived - EVERY single person is as precious to Him as any other. We are his “children“. If you’re a parent, it’s easy to understand how you can love a child despite their rebellion. If you had 10 children, and they grow up and one of them does something really horrible, but comes to you broken & sorry and genuinely asks for forgiveness would you not be able to forgive them? What if one of your 10 children murdered one of your other children? If they came to you ashamed and said they were sorry would you not forgive them? Again, assuming that the repentance is genuine, no sin is unforgivable.

(Right about now is when you will cue the argument that a loving God would not allow one of His children to do something harmful to another one of His children. Of course that is based on God’s gift of free will to each and every one of us. Unfortunately, if He limited what we had the choice to do, then it wouldn’t be free will.)

If a person accepts Christ, their heart should change, and their attitude towards their sin should also change. Genuine Christians do not have the belief they can continue to sin as much as they want like it’s some sort of get out of jail free card. God is more than capable of judging who is who and He will sort us all out in the end.

Bottom line is that the actions of others is no reason for you to not take a look at your own state and decide for yourself if you want the free forgiveness that is offered by God. It will do you no good after you die and stand before God to point to other so-called Christians’ sins and tell Him that that was the reason why you rejected His son and His free offer of salvation.

 

[Kung Fu]

Simply that the "supernatural" can intervene into our reality as God chooses. He can just as easily send an angel as enter it himself, either walking with Adam in the garden or (and I know this won't sit well), sending His Son.

Forget sitting well. You guys are blaspheming hardcore. Tell me did the firstborn put up a good fight against the angels? Were the angels fighting the babies until dawn and did the firstborns prevail? Again it's because of nonsense like this atheists have a field day with you guys. Yes, atheists say some dumb things but this is just as bad or even worse.

 

[Haich]

God is not the author of confusion. Some of you say faith alone is enough, some of you say faith and works. People ask questions about the trinity, we're told to just believe. Now we have someone claiming God wrestled with Jacob!

The fact that you guys can't unanimously agree on what your faith is about validates the revelation of the Qur'an and the final messenger to the world. I mean you guys are even shy to state which church or denomination you belong to, because there are numerous variations in belief.

Really? Men wrestling God...your religion is most definitely man-made and that just proved it!

 

[Serveto]

I think anthropomorphisms are like analogies - they discribe in physical terms a spiritual meaning. People considering these parallels should have a good grasp of simle and metaphor. The tricky part is to realise that some things are really the divine intervening on the physical plane (e.g. parting of the Red Sea) whilst others are illustrative of God's heart towards us...

Matthew 23:37

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens * under her wings, and ye would not!

*God is not a hen

At least Jesus makes it clear that he is speaking metaphorically, relating it to the behavior of a hen. Technically, as I see it, that's not an anthropomorphism as such. Better examples of explicit Biblical anthropomorphisms, in which human-like qualities or attributes are ascribed to God, are found in Maimonides' treatise on the topic.

 

[Haich]

Could I be a rapist and accept Christ and be forgiven? Yes. Could I continue to be a rapist after that? No. That would indicate I obviously HAVEN’T accepted Christ and experienced any change in my heart.

But belief alone, faith alone, doesn't prevent a sinner from sinning. I get that your sins prior are forgiven upon accepted Jesus pbuh, but there are people who accept Jesus and still sin. Are you sinless? It's like, on the one hand you say we can't achieve perfection, but isn't that what you're saying now? You have to be perfect and sinless after becoming a Christian and accepting Jesus?

Plus, don't you think Jesus died in vain? I mean the world is still- if not worse- than it has been in prior times. There's still widespread sin and corruption...You say Christian sinners aren't real Christians but they pray and go to church and believe what you believe. How about the Catholic priests abusing and raping children, they're your leaders! Will faith in Jesus be enough for them?

Point is, faith alone clearly doesn't work.

 

[DesertRose]

I was watching this video last night and the info was new for me.
Is true or not?
Will look for the responses from all perspectives with interest.
Is the King James Bible a masonic bible.

 

[LostCoin]

But belief alone, faith alone, doesn't prevent a sinner from sinning. I get that your sins prior are forgiven upon accepted Jesus pbuh, but there are people who accept Jesus and still sin. Are you sinless? It's like, on the one hand you say we can't achieve perfection, but isn't that what you're saying now? You have to be perfect and sinless after becoming a Christian and accepting Jesus?

Plus, don't you think Jesus died in vain? I mean the world is still- if not worse- than it has been in prior times. There's still widespread sin and corruption...You say Christian sinners aren't real Christians but they pray and go to church and believe what you believe. How about the Catholic priests abusing and raping children, they're your leaders! Will faith in Jesus be enough for them?

Point is, faith alone clearly doesn't work.

First off, I thought that you said I was “a troll” and you asked me to stop engaging with you, LOL.

Perhaps you have “forgiven“ me and we can move past that.

Please go back and reread my post above. I clearly said that upon acceptance of Christ you unfortunately don’t stop sinning... Why would you even think I implied that? I don’t think I have ever heard a single solitary Christian claim that once they accepted Christ they became perfect.

As long as I am human,I will wrestle with my weak flesh and sin nature, but my attitude towards sinning should be changed and my WILLINGNESS to repent should increase.

 

[Haich]

I'll give you an example.

Isis do not represent Islam in any way shape of form. We can argue about their origins but the point is they aren't your average Muslim and are clearly politically and financially driven extremists.

People like them have always been around in the world. Not with the backing of superpowers of course, but there has always been a small group of rebels in Islam taking a harddline view. In hadith they are referred to as the Khawarij, those with the ideology of violence. There's a hadith which details and explains their characteristics and emphasises how the Qur'an' s words doesn't go beyond their throats. This means, God's message doesn't enter their hearts thus they aren't considered Muslims...

Of course in Islam, you can't go around accusing people of being disvelievers but this is the gist of the message the hadith relays. People like Isis are referred to as the dogs of hellfire, which tells us as Muslims, when logically trying to determine what makes a person an individual of paradise, being Muslim isn't enough. There are wrtetxhed Muslims who pray, fast and do good but they cancel all that out with doing bad...God is aware of them and unless they repent and refrain, dying in that state of hypocrisy and deceit is detrimental to their salvation.

This makes sense and clearly shows the Lord to be a just and fair being. The prophets may have come with different laws for their people, but the message was always the same. So heaven in Islam, isn't just for followers of Mohammed pbuh, as many people before Mohammed' s birth were monotheistic believers.

What happens to everyone else in Christianity? You can type away and say you're free of sin since accepting Jesus but that conflates with your human state. No human is sinless and the point is we try to cancel out the errors by worshipping the sole creator but also doing good and forbidding evil...

Where are the people of Moses going? The people of Solomon and David? The people of Jonah, Elias, Enoch, Noah etc are they going heaven with their nations? The believing people that is...

Or is your idea of heaven, that God will admit a handful of Christians and everyone else is doomed? Doesn't that sound proposerous?

 

[Haich]

First off, I thought that you said I was “a troll” and you asked me to stop engaging with you, LOL.

Perhaps you have “forgiven“ me and we can move past that.

Please go back and reread my post above. I clearly said that upon acceptance of Christ you unfortunately don’t stop sinning... Why would you even think I implied that? I don’t think I have ever heard a single solitary Christian claim that once they accepted Christ they became perfect.

As long as I am human,I will wrestle with my weak flesh and sin nature, but my attitude towards sinning should be changed and my WILLINGNESS to repent should increase.

So you're still allowed to sin despite being saved. What was the point of Jesus' death and your acceptance for Jesus if you're still sinning but just with a different attitude?

Part time sinner ?

 

[Haich]

Your salvation is based on the acceptance of Jesus, then your prior sins are forgiven and you have a clean slate. However, you continue to sin, which is normal and human nature, but the only thing that's changed is your acknowledgement of Jesus dying for the very sins you continue to commit, just with a different attitude?

 

[Haich]

I think you guys really need understand who we're dealing with here. God is not just above the heavens, He's above His throne. We cannot begin to fathom his Might and His power. For you to even entertain the idea, that this supreme being, came in human form or as an angel and wrestled Jacob is honestly one of the most absurdly misguided things I've ever read. May God guide you guys with all sincerity that's just nonsense...

And also, am I right in assuming you guys believe Jesus existed prior to his birth?

 

[floss]

I think you guys really need understand who we're dealing with here. God is not just above the heavens, He's above His throne. We cannot begin to fathom his Might and His power. For you to even entertain the idea, that this supreme being, came in human form or as an angel and wrestled Jacob is honestly one of the most absurdly misguided things I've ever read. May God guide you guys with all sincerity that's just nonsense...

And also, am I right in assuming you guys believe Jesus existed prior to his birth?

JESUS have always eternally existed in a bodily form, he is the Alpha and Omega, he is THE CREATOR... you are made in JESUS's image with the likeness of FATHER GOD and HOLY GHOST

 

[Haich]

So why was he born if he always existed in an external form?

More questions than answers...

 

[Haich]

Did Moses and Abraham pray to Jesus? They didn't mention him once to their people, they always called for the sole worship of the Father.

 

[floss]

Your salvation is based on the acceptance of Jesus, then your prior sins are forgiven and you have a clean slate. However, you continue to sin, which is normal and human nature, but the only thing that's changed is your acknowledgement of Jesus dying for the very sins you continue to commit, just with a different attitude?

Once you accepted the Gospel of Christ, you will be Born-Again (a spiritual rebirth), this NEW MAN is SINLESS through the power of the Gospel. ALL your sins (past, present and future) are erased and the righteousness of JESUS is imputed unto you which is the ONLY way God will let you in his kingdom. However you're still stuck with the OLD MAN (current you) until you die. This OLD MAN will continue to sin until the day of redemption. I believe a true born again Christian will see the OLD MAN transformed even within this life time, does not mean they'll be perfect.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

So why was he born if he always existed in an external form?

More questions than answers...

Haich, I would love to try to answer some of your questions but I suspect there is an issue that for you to accept the logic on which the answers are based would make you de-facto someone who questions Islam. I think you are loved by God and are somebody for whom Christ died.

I also aknowledge the gap between my understanding of Christianity from within compared to a view from without, filtered through Islamic presuppositions about who God is and who we are.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Once you accepted the Gospel of Christ, you will be Born-Again (a spiritual rebirth), this NEW MAN is SINLESS through the power of the Gospel. ALL your sins (past, present and future) are erased and the righteousness of JESUS is imputed unto you which is the ONLY way God will let you in his kingdom. However you're still stuck with the OLD MAN (current you) until you die. This OLD MAN will continue to sin until the day of redemption. I believe a true born again Christian will see the OLD MAN transformed even within this life time, does not mean they'll be perfect.

How about this from 1 John 1:

"6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

My son may be a family member, but he can still annoy me and lose his pocket money for the week. He didn't become my son because he was good enough. He doesn't stay my son because he is good enough. I will not disown him...

However, the quality of our relationship and the likelihood of rewards this weekend are all at stake based on his actions.

 

[phipps]

[

So why was he born if he always existed in an external form?

More questions than answers...

Jesus was born into the world to come and save us from sin. To save us from eternal damnation. From the moment Adam and Eve sinned, God made a plan to save us from sin should we choose to accept his gift of salvation and obey His word. Jesus also came to show us how to live a life dedicated to God through Him. The Bible says He is our example'

John 13:15
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.