Dr. William Campbell destroyed by Dr. Zakir Naik on scientific errors in the Bible MUST WATCH!!

[JoChris]

That doctrine comes from Martin Luther. It was invented so he could be free to do whatever he wanted (such as marrying a nun).

I don't get why people to this day blindly follow his doctrine which was formulated as a justification for him to do whatever he wanted. (E Michael Jones goes into detail about Martin Luther and his doctrine in Degenerate Moderns)

But in any case, that faith without works doctine.... it's a magic pill.

Protestantism is like a magic pill and Islam is like a diet and exercise program.

This is why Islam gets results.

How many times have all you Muslims *already* been told that Faith alone equals salvation...
THEN a Christian will do good works* as a RESULT of their love of God? Do you have an "forget-what-contradicts-Islam RE Christianity" Cookie Cleaner program installed in your minds?

* including repenting sins, changed lifestyle, growing in holiness, doing things out of love for God/neighbour

 

[Claire Rousseau]

I mean Adam and Eve were virgin births too, actually they were the most purest form of creation, no mother, no father so....

Adam & Eve weren’t virgin births, as they were not born.

Also, they were created; they had a beginning, and are mere humans like us.

Jesus was never created, He always was, and always will be.

 

[phipps]

That doctrine comes from Martin Luther. It was invented so he could be free to do whatever he wanted (such as marrying a nun).

I don't get why people to this day blindly follow his doctrine which was formulated as a justification for him to do whatever he wanted. (E Michael Jones goes into detail about Martin Luther and his doctrine in Degenerate Moderns)

But in any case, that faith without works doctine.... it's a magic pill.

Protestantism is like a magic pill and Islam is like a diet and exercise program.

This is why Islam gets results.

Lets see what the Bible says, hence what God says about faith without works.

James 2:14-26

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God but that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation. Faith in Christ always results in good works. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or dead faith and is not saved.

Many profess to be Christians, but their lives and priorities indicate otherwise. Jesus put it this way: “By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers’” (Matthew 7:16–23).

Faith without works is dead because it reveals a heart that has not been transformed by God. When we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, our lives will demonstrate that new life. Our works will be characterized by obedience to God. Unseen faith will become seen by the production of the fruit of the Spirit in our lives (Galatians 5:22). Christians belong to Christ, the Good Shepherd. As His sheep we hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:26–30).

Faith without works is dead because faith results in a new creation, not a repetition of the same old patterns of sinful behaviour. As Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

Faith without works is dead because it comes from a heart that has not been regenerated by God. Empty professions of faith have no power to change lives. Those who pay lip service to faith but who do not possess the Spirit will hear Christ Himself say to them, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers” (Matthew 7:23).

These are not my own words but they explain what I believe and what the Bible teaches about faith without works.

 

[JoChris]

Lets see what Bible says, hence what God says about faith without works.

James 2:14-26

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God but that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation. Faith in Christ always results in good works. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or dead faith and is not saved.

Many profess to be Christians, but their lives and priorities indicate otherwise. Jesus put it this way: “By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers’” (Matthew 7:16–23).

Faith without works is dead because it reveals a heart that has not been transformed by God. When we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, our lives will demonstrate that new life. Our works will be characterized by obedience to God. Unseen faith will become seen by the production of the fruit of the Spirit in our lives (Galatians 5:22). Christians belong to Christ, the Good Shepherd. As His sheep we hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:26–30).

Faith without works is dead because faith results in a new creation, not a repetition of the same old patterns of sinful behaviour. As Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

Faith without works is dead because it comes from a heart that has not been regenerated by God. Empty professions of faith have no power to change lives. Those who pay lip service to faith but who do not possess the Spirit will hear Christ Himself say to them, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers” (Matthew 7:23).

These are not my own words but they explain what I believe and what the Bible teaches about faith without works.

1 John is also an excellent book to show signs to tell the difference between real Christians and fake ones. https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-1-tests-true-christianity-1-john-overview

 

[LostCoin]

1) the story of Jacob wrestling with the man. Is said to be an angel. Google it

the name Israel as "wrestles with God" is misunderstood as it doesn't mean he fights with God (for God sake who would believe such an absurd thing) but that he struggles for God's cause. Kind of like the meaning of jihad or crusade.

2) I really can't reply to each point since they require detailed replies
But Jesus is not God. The trinitarian doctrine is a false and literal understanding of mystical themes in the new testament that developed.
John 1:1 made two seemingly contradictory statements
The Word was with God
And
The Word is God
These two statements are both correct because one refers to God's Trancendence and the other to God's Immanence.
I can fully believe that God is Immanent in the Word/Son but this is not His Trancendence.

3) just to illustrate the extent of your ignorance
The Catholic church was the one who St Augustine mentioned and followed with the trinitarian doctrine.
So even this doctrine is from Rome.

So you believe the Catholic church to be evil and pagan? Good...and so is your belief that came from it.

But I don't even know what point you are making. The whore of Babylon is actually the Jewish nation and the proof is in Jeremiah 2-3, Zechariah 5 and even Jesus said 'jerusalem Jerusalem you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you"

Again this is a topic o have dedicated a lot of time talking about on this forum
So each time a new Christian comes out from under a rock to make these arguments I really don't need to respond each time.e
It shows the extent of ignorance you faux Christians are living in to be wrong on everything all the time.

Sorry, this is wrong ^^^

Jacob did indeed wrestle with God Himself...likely the "angel of The LORD" mentioned throughout the OT (which most Biblical scholars agree is another name for Christ....and no, not Dave from Skipton). IsraEL does mean "wrestles with God", and it means it literally. In the Bible we always take the text at literal translation, unless it's an obvious allegory or parable. No other meaning need be ascribed.

Who would believe such an absurd thing? Well, I for one. Mankind has "fought" with God since the minute Adam &Eve decided to become their own gods and disobeyed the only "Do Not" commandment God gave them when they took from the Tree of Knowledge and ate from it. I "fight" with God all the time: when He wants me to forgive and I don't feel it; or He wants me to give more of my time, talent or treasure than my selfish nature wants to; or He wants me to put Him on the throne of my life rather than myself....etc etc. Jacob just happened to PHYSICALLY wrestle with God. And if you know anything about Jacob's life as a stubborn, self-serving trickster, it's not surprising that was what it took for him to finally submit to God and the plan He had for Jacob. While Jacob always had a true belief in Jehovah, up until that little wrestling match Jacob's OWN agenda was top priority, so actually NOTHING like the meaning of a crusader. Pre-Israel Jacob was certainly not struggling FOR God, but rather against Him. So, God got his attention in a rather unique way.

Ironically, the quote from John 1:1 is one of the strongest proofs in the Bible that explicitly confirms Jesus was God Himself, eternal and pre-incarnate, who became human to perfectly and sinlessly fulfill the law and lay his life down as the only acceptable atonement. You have just misinterpreted it:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Just substitute the name Jesus for "Word", and it makes total sense: In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God.)
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(This speaks to Jesus' participation in all creation - see also Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness")

Continued:
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(This could refer to no one else but Christ, who was indeed flesh and dwelt among us. It refers not to a "concept" but to a PERSON - note the use of the personal pronoun "his". Like, that's pretty explicit - how can you interpret it any other way???)

So, actually not contradictory at all.

You keep speaking of God's transcendence and His immanence as reasons to reject the Trinity. Not sure why?? In the simplest description, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have always existed eternally as one. In God's amazing and mysterious plan, He knew that His precious children were going to rebel against Him and bring upon themselves eternal separation from Him. But He devised the perfect solution: He Himself (in the form of the Son) would be born into humanity and take their just punishment in their place. While Jesus was here on earth and limited in His humanity to being in one place at one time, the Father remained in his transcendent state, continuing to operate in His usual omnipresent, omnipotent, and all-knowing attributes. That's why you see Jesus always submitting to the Father during his earthly ministry...he was here to "do the will of the Father".

The Godhead Jesus left Heaven and came to earth in the form of a man for roughly 33 yrs to teach us what unconditional love, grace, and mercy look like clothed in human flesh and to mop up our sin mess once and for all....while the Godhead Father remained in Heaven effectively tending the shop and running the Universe.

LASTLY: if we're all "faux Christians", then what is a REAL Christian??? I'm honestly dying to know!

 

[Kung Fu]

How many times have all you Muslims *already* been told that Faith alone equals salvation...
THEN a Christian will do good works* as a RESULT of their love of God? Do you have an "forget-what-contradicts-Islam RE Christianity" Cookie Cleaner program installed in your minds?

* including repenting sins, changed lifestyle, growing in holiness, doing things out of love for God/neighbour

Absolute bullshit. People like Thunderian and other crazy Texan style Christians have repeatedly said that faith alone in Jesus Christ and him dying for your sins will save you regardless of how many kids you have raped and villages you have pillaged. There are Christians out there right now that wholeheartedly believe Jesus Christ is their Lord and that he died for them but yet are some of the worst people out their in terms of morality and lifestyle and would be considered "saved" under your style of Christian doctrine or am I wrong?

 

[Kung Fu]

Sorry, this is wrong ^^^

Jacob did indeed wrestle with God Himself...likely the "angel of The LORD" mentioned throughout the OT (which most Biblical scholars agree is another name for Christ....and no, not Dave from Skipton). IsraEL does mean "wrestles with God", and it means it literally.

And people wonder why I say Christians are illogical. No wonder atheists have a field day with you guys.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Absolute bullshit. People like Thunderian and other crazy Texan style Christians have repeatedly said that faith alone in Jesus Christ and him dying for your sins will save you regardless of how many kids you have raped and villages you have pillaged. There are Christians out there right now that wholeheartedly believe Jesus Christ is their Lord and that he died for them but yet are some of the worst people out their in terms of morality and lifestyle and would be considered "saved" under your style of Christian doctrine or am I wrong?

Why do you suppose Jesus is ready to spew the last church (Laodacea) out of his mouth? Many Christians seem to want their "best life now" and regard salvation by grace as the ultimate "insurance policy".

The works of such believers will be judged and whilst they may inherit eiernal life, they will be saved "as by fire".

Anyone who has had their house burned to ashes will identify with the emptiness of feeling that everything you built up is gone. To enter eternity with the spiritual equivalent of a wood, hay and stubble dishonourable discharge is surely something to be avoided!

As Paul puts it in 1 Corinthians 9:-

24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

 

[phipps]

Absolute bullshit. People like Thunderian and other crazy Texan style Christians have repeatedly said that faith alone in Jesus Christ and him dying for your sins will save you regardless of how many kids you have raped and villages you have pillaged. There are Christians out there right now that wholeheartedly believe Jesus Christ is their Lord and that he died for them but yet are some of the worst people out their in terms of morality and lifestyle and would be considered "saved" under your style of Christian doctrine or am I wrong?

Just because some people call themselves Christians doesn't make them Christians at heart. Its just outward not inward Christianity. If their works or actions are contrary to the word of God then they are not abiding by God's word are they?

This is from my post above.

Many profess to be Christians, but their lives and priorities indicate otherwise. Jesus put it this way: “By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers’” (Matthew 7:16–23).

 

[Orwell's mentor]

He doesn't want us to be perfect not one verse tells us, he wants perfection or expects it. He wants us to tackle our demons and come out strong in this test of life. He's sorting the good people from the bad and He's just. Those who had never heard of His message, due to isolation from mainstream nations or maybe they never understood it, they'll be tried in their own way and this is the knowledge we have. You can't know everything, that's the point, we're not capable of thinking in that capacity...

Finally, no other person will pay for the sin of another. If you do bad and repent genuinely, God says he'll transform those sins into good deeds. This is how merciful He is.

May I say that this is a beautiful proclamation to your faith, Haich. I like how you described what happens with the Heavenly Father as I often wonder what happens to these people on Judgement Day:

"In 2011, there are 100 uncontacted tribes worldwide"

 

[phipps]

And people wonder why I say Christians are illogical. No wonder atheists have a field day with you guys.

1 Corinthians 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Only those who have faith in God and open their hearts to Him and allow to the Holy Spirit in everyday to work within them will understand certain things. The closer we get to God, the more we understand.

 

[Serveto]

1 Corinthians 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Only those who have faith in God and open their hearts to Him and allow to the Holy Spirit in everyday to work within them will understand certain things. The closer we get to God, the more we understand.

On the other hand, it seems to me that to overly anthropomorphize God, to turn Him (for lack of a better, more adequate pronoun) into a wrestler meeting Jacob on the wrestling mat, to describe Him as "jealous" and "wrathful" and suchlike can also indicate that the person who holds those views, who is doing the describing, is approaching idolatry. Some people carve idols outside from stone; others engrave images, concepts in mind. The latter type, and I am not including you, by the way, and welcome you to the forum, can be as idolatrous as the former.

 

[floss]

And people wonder why I say Christians are illogical. No wonder atheists have a field day with you guys.

God the Son Jesus bodily appeared in the OT multiple time. Matter of fact, he has eternally existed in the bodily form. So yes, Jacob did physically wrestle with God the Son, NOT God the Father if that’s what you imagined.

Whether you believe this or not, you are made in the image of God the Son (physical form) with the likeness of God Father and Holy Ghost (your soul & spirit).

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

On the other hand, it seems to me that to overly anthropomorphize God, to turn Him (for lack of a better, more adequate pronoun) into a wrestler meeting Jacob on the wrestling mat, to describe Him as "jealous" and "wrathful" and suchlike can also indicate that the person who holds those views, who is doing the describing, is approaching idolatry. Some people carve idols outside from stone; others engrave images, concepts in mind. The latter type, and I am not including you, by the way, and welcome you to the forum, can be as idolatrous as the former.

I got to thinking about the way Adam "walked with God" and found this...

"Occurring frequently הלך hâlak (Strong's #1980) means simply "to walk" as in Genesis 3:8 where the sound of the Lord God is "walking" in Eden is heard by Adam and Eve. After their sin they had become afraid of God's footsteps and no longer "walked with God". In contrast, Enoch is positively described as "walking with God" (Genesis 5:22,24) before being taken to be with God. Noah, also, is similarly noted as being righteous and perfect and one who "walked with God" (Genesis 6:9). In Genesis 17:1 God commands Abraham also to "walk" with him and be perfect. So, whilst the word is basically a practical term it has idiomatic overtones, in this case, of fellowship and a right relationship with God."

https://www.studylight.org/language-studies/hebrew-thoughts.html?article=557

I'm sure there were perhaps spiritual and physical aspects of Jacobs struggle with God.

 

[AspiringSoul]

God is Immanent
In the angel


Hence.......
But it's still an angel.

Smh at wrestling God literally.

 

[Serveto]

I got to thinking about the way Adam "walked with God" and found this...

"Occurring frequently הלך hâlak (Strong's #1980) means simply "to walk" as in Genesis 3:8 where the sound of the Lord God is "walking" in Eden is heard by Adam and Eve. After their sin they had become afraid of God's footsteps and no longer "walked with God". In contrast, Enoch is positively described as "walking with God" (Genesis 5:22,24) before being taken to be with God. Noah, also, is similarly noted as being righteous and perfect and one who "walked with God" (Genesis 6:9). In Genesis 17:1 God commands Abraham also to "walk" with him and be perfect. So, whilst the word is basically a practical term it has idiomatic overtones, in this case, of fellowship and a right relationship with God."

https://www.studylight.org/language-studies/hebrew-thoughts.html?article=557

I'm sure there were perhaps spiritual and physical aspects of Jacobs struggle with God.

Judaism, the Old Testament, is so filled with anthropomorphisms that Maimonides, and this, as I recall, one of his editors, Jacob Minken, suggests he did largely in response to his having read Islamic literature, including the Quran, and finding so comparatively few of them, wrote an entire treatise on the subject, explaining, to the "perplexed," how best to understand them. To the extent that the Old and New Testaments are intertwined, Christianity, it seems to me, inherited those anthropomorphisms and may have added a few more of its own.

 

[Kung Fu]

I'm cracking up here. A human wrestled with GOD. Did Jacob double leg God or go for a single leg take down followed by a pin?

I just don't understand how people can justify this kind of nonsense. Christians claim Jacob literally wrestled with God Almighty but yet I'm the foolish one.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Judaism, the Old Testament, is so filled with anthropomorphisms that Maimonides, and this one of his editors, Jacob Minken, suggests he did largely in response to his having read Islamic literature, including the Quran, and finding so comparatively few of them, wrote an entire treatise on the subject, explaining, to the "perplexed," how best to understand them. To the extent that the Old and New Testaments are intertwined, Christianity, it seems to me, inherited those anthropomorphisms and added a few more of its own.

I think anthropomorphisms are like analogies - they discribe in physical terms a spiritual meaning. People considering these parallels should have a good grasp of simle and metaphor. The tricky part is to realise that some things are really the divine intervening on the physical plane (e.g. parting of the Red Sea) whilst others are illustrative of God's heart towards us...

Matthew 23:37

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens * under her wings, and ye would not!

*God is not a hen

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I'm cracking up here. A human wrestled with GOD. Did Jacob double leg God or go for a single leg take down followed by a pin?

I just don't understand how people can justify this kind of nonsense. Christians claim Jacob literally wrestled with God Almighty but yet I'm the foolish one.

Did an angel physically kill the firstborn in the last plague of Egypt?

 

[Kung Fu]

God is Immanent
In the angel


Hence.......
But it's still an angel.

Smh at wrestling God literally.

They actually believe that a HUMAN LITERALLY WRESTLED WITH GOD.