Dr. William Campbell destroyed by Dr. Zakir Naik on scientific errors in the Bible MUST WATCH!!

[manama]

Jesus WAS born, and he did in fact die,

Yea because he was human.

don't know how much you know of the Bible, but it teaches that Jesus was fully God and fully man

I have yet to read any verse in the entire Bible which explicitly states that Jesus was God.

how do I pay my sin debt to God and be assured He will let me in to His Heaven?

I don't understand what do you mean by sin debt.

You still haven't answered my question. You said that Jesus died and was resurrected and it makes him God because only God can come back from dead. I am asking you that since I am going to be resurrected after my death along with others, am i special too?

 

[LostCoin]

The way good repels evil, similarly virtues and good deeds wash away the sins. Not a difficult concept to understand. Then there is God's mercy that he bestows upon us when we know what we are and we beg for his love and his forgiveness. Christians here don't like asking God for forgiveness apparently.

Let me repeat that question to you. What will I say? Imagine there is a really good person who sins here and there but overall is an amazing person, he helps others, tells the truth, does charity. BUT he is not a Christian. Why does he go to hell and you don't? Does he deserve heaven any less than you just because he thinks that God can not be human. Is he not deserving of God's love?

If i were to accept christianity in the next 6 minutes I am suddenly more deserving of heaven than my peers. Isn't that injustice.

Justice gives you things to do and things not to do. When you follow the laws, you are saved and vice versa. If suddenly all courts decided that you can only be saved from jail if you think that the judge is your king or master. Would you call that justice any longer? The concept of virtues and sins don't need to even exist any longer.

Let me ask you the biggest question. Satan has been among the angels, he has interacted with God (as much as was allowed) and he has met all the Prophets, probably understands Bible more than any of us AND has met Jesus p.b.u.h and believes in him too. So is satan saved then? Why?

The problem with this thinking is that it is dependent upon ME and MY ability. I am no doubt a sinner who calls on God for forgiveness, grace and mercy daily. I also have the peace of knowing that Jesus has paid my sin debt - one I am too morally bankrupt to pay - once, and for all. My calling on God for forgiveness is just my acknowledgment that I have transgressed against Him, not that my prayers are sufficient to erase that debt.

NONE is "deserving" of God's love - we have all sinned against Him, and therefore based on the very idea of "deserving" something, we don't. I think where our thinking gets clouded is because we look at it like it's a "scale of sin"...like my lie isn't as bad as your stealing....or at least I have never raped, or murdered, etc. But imagine if you will, God greets you at Heaven's gate, and not only is He wearing pure white, you can see that all of Heaven is pure and unblemished...like white carpets in a living room. Suddenly you realize that not only are your feet covered in mud, but your hands are dirty too and even your clothes are nasty and full of dirt and grime (which of course represents sin).... and all this time, you thought you were "pretty clean"!!!! God looks at you and says "I love you deeply, my child, but you cannot come in to My Kingdom full of the dirt of your sin". Then you look around and Jesus is there, saying, "Hey I have a gift for you....no, you can't pay me for it (prayers and deeds)....I gave all I had to purchase it for you; it is priceless - -and besides, your spiritual bank account is too small to ever be able to buy this. Because I and the Father love you so much, We don't want you to spend eternity outside of Heaven....what's in this box is free and is My gift to you, all you have to do is believe I bought it and accept it." Wow, that's way too simple you think, but you decide to accept the box, and in it is a perfect white robe and clean sandals. NOW you can enter God's Kingdom, exchanging what you "thought" were clean clothes for what is ACTUALLY clean, according to God's standards, not yours.

So, in your example above - Christians aren't saved simply because we believe that the Judge is now our King (He is, and always was)...... we are saved because as we stand convicted before the perfect Judge/King, we realize the penalty for conviction is so great that we have no way to pay it (the wages of sin is death, even you can agree to this, it's in the OT)....when suddenly the Judge, after pronouncing sentence stands up and says "Because I love you, I MYSELF will pay the penalty you cannot hope to pay, and I MYSELF will spare you from death."

 

[LostCoin]

The problem with this thinking is that it is dependent upon ME and MY ability. I am no doubt a sinner who calls on God for forgiveness, grace and mercy daily. I also have the peace of knowing that Jesus has paid my sin debt - one I am too morally bankrupt to pay - once, and for all. My calling on God for forgiveness is just my acknowledgment that I have transgressed against Him, not that my prayers are sufficient to erase that debt.

NONE is "deserving" of God's love - we have all sinned against Him, and therefore based on the very idea of "deserving" something, we don't. I think where our thinking gets clouded is because we look at it like it's a "scale of sin"...like my lie isn't as bad as your stealing....or at least I have never raped, or murdered, etc. But imagine if you will, God greets you at Heaven's gate, and not only is He wearing pure white, you can see that all of Heaven is pure and unblemished...like white carpets in a living room. Suddenly you realize that not only are your feet covered in mud, but your hands are dirty too and even your clothes are nasty and full of dirt and grime (which of course represents sin).... and all this time, you thought you were "pretty clean"!!!! God looks at you and says "I love you deeply, my child, but you cannot come in to My Kingdom full of the dirt of your sin". Then you look around and Jesus is there, saying, "Hey I have a gift for you....no, you can't pay me for it (prayers and deeds)....I gave all I had to purchase it for you; it is priceless - and besides -your spiritual bank account is too small to ever be able to buy this. Because I and the Father love you so much, We don't want you to spend eternity outside of Heaven....what's in this box is free and is My gift to you, all you have to do is believe I bought it and accept it." Wow, that's way too simple you think, but you decide to accept the box, and in it is a perfect white robe and clean sandals. NOW you can enter God's Kingdom, exchanging what you "thought" were clean clothes for what is ACTUALLY clean, according to God's standards, not yours.

So, in your example above - Christians aren't saved simply because we believe that the Judge is now our King (He is, and always was)...... we are saved because as we stand convicted before the perfect Judge/King, we realize the penalty for conviction is so great that we have no way to pay it (the wages of sin is death, even you can agree to this, it's in the OT)....when suddenly the Judge, after pronouncing sentence stands up and says "Because I love you, I MYSELF will pay the penalty you cannot hope to pay, and I MYSELF will spare you from death."

ADDED:

Yea because he was human.


I have yet to read any verse in the entire Bible which explicitly states that Jesus was God.


I don't understand what do you mean by sin debt.

You still haven't answered my question. You said that Jesus died and was resurrected and it makes him God because only God can come back from dead. I am asking you that since I am going to be resurrected after my death along with others, am i special too?

Because God is both LOVING and JUST, He requires a just penalty for our sins. This is true in the human world - when you break a law, there is a penalty associated with that, otherwise, it would b chaos.

Unlike mankind's laws, which have different penalties associated with various laws, God states simply that because He is holy & pure, NO sin can come into His presence - even though by our standards, it may be "small". God states that His penalty for sin is removal from His presence, which is the ultimate death (the wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23) - death of the spirit by being cast out of God's prescence. Once we have "sin debt" on our moral bank account, that's it, we are subject to the penalty of death as set forth by God. The good news is that there is One, and Only ONE, who can pay that debt for us... that is the perfect, sinless Christ. The Savior of mankind. "For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only begotten Son, that whosoever shall believe on Him shall NOT perish, but have everlasting life".

The whole OT is full of stories of the BLOOD animal sacrifices that God directed the Israelites to make to "atone" for their sins, so clearly just being a good person, doing good deeds and praying were not sufficient to satisfy the law that something has to die (blood) to cancel out the debt of sin.

 

[manama]

ADDED:




Because God is both LOVING and JUST, He requires a just penalty for our sins. This is true in the human world - when you break a law, there is a penalty associated with that, otherwise, it would b chaos.

Unlike mankind's laws, which have different penalties associated with various laws, God states simply that because He is holy & pure, NO sin can come into His presence - even though by our standards, it may be "small". God states that His penalty for sin is removal from His presence, which is the ultimate death (the wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23) - death of the spirit by being cast out of God's prescence. Once we have "sin debt" on our moral bank account, that's it, we are subject to the penalty of death as set forth by God. The good news is that there is One, and Only ONE, who can pay that debt for us... that is the perfect, sinless Christ. The Savior of mankind. "For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only begotten Son, that whosoever shall believe on Him shall NOT perish, but have everlasting life".

The whole OT is full of stories of the BLOOD animal sacrifices that God directed the Israelites to make to "atone" for their sins, so clearly just being a good person, doing good deeds and praying were not sufficient to satisfy the law that something has to die (blood) to cancel out the debt of sin.

It still doesn't answer the question about either Satan or the resurrection or the Prophets so i'll leave it at this. I just can not stand the notion that someone who created something imperfect suddenly wants it to be 100% perfect or the lord of the universes just can not forgive something he created.

 

[JoChris]

most Christians on this forum are false christians, they have absolutely nothing to do with the NT. I have tested them so many times on here and found they were clearly lying and covering their tracks. Even paul never said Jesus was God and he clearly seperated them.
i was even highlighting that on here only yesterday.

Some of us have family commitments. I answer responses that I believe I am able to answer that particular day.

You have been given multiple explanations and every time you dismiss them via using your pseudo-Islam mystic worldview. Islam was formed 6 centuries after Jesus walked the earth. Your version has been rejected by the serious orthodox Muslims quite a few times and you don't even listen to them.


I will answer that ridiculous claim RE Paul not saying Jesus was via apologetics links. I know you won't read them but serious readers might.

https://carm.org/did-paul-think-jesus-was-god
https://www.answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/moreproof_paulinechristology.html

From Book of Colossians alone - written by apostle Paul - you deliberately misquoted yesterday:

1: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God [contradicting Islam's false teaching that Jesus is a mere prophet], the firstborn of every creature:

1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell [of the father's godhood];

2:9 For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily [not mere prophet]

Like I said above - we all know you will concoct a series of excuses to explain away witness/es' writings as usual. That is part of your faith - believe anything BUT the bible.

 

[manama]

I find it ironic that the very people who preach about faith, not just any faith but "Blind" faith go ahead and demand assurance when it comes to Islam. You are ready to believe in something you do not understand, that you can not explain but pass it off as faith when that is not what faith means. Its about trust, you KNOW something and you understand it. Your God has told you what to do and what not to do. If you do your best you have FAITH that you will succeed.
If you wrong and then ask for forgiveness, you have faith that he will forgive you if you want it from the bottom of your heart. That is what faith means.

You have a test and you prepare for it, then you take the test. You have faith that if you had prepared good and you gave the right answers, you will pass. Faith is NOT, not understanding the test subject, not understanding the questions, not understanding what the teacher is saying and just doing whatever then pretending that everyone else will fail and you will pass because the teacher is nice.
Someone else taking your test for you isn't faith either

And this is why

Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful." - Quran 39:53

is enough for me to consider my "faith" superior to all others.

 

[LostCoin]

It still doesn't answer the question about either Satan or the resurrection or the Prophets so i'll leave it at this. I just can not stand the notion that someone who created something imperfect suddenly wants it to be 100% perfect or the lord of the universes just can not forgive something he created.

Ok, fair enough. If that's where you are stuck, then that's your choice.

I didn't address the question about Satan or the prophets, because they are secondary to the question of "what about my sin??" I did answer your resurrection question: no one gets resurrected or can stand in the prescence of a holy and pure God if they have sin. If you yourself do not have forgiveness for your sins, (and how can you be sure?? How do you know FOR CERTAIN you have "done enough"??) you will not see resurrection, since your soul will still be under the penalty of death = separation from God. :'(

To think we can "pray away" our sin or "do enough good" does not withstand the standards given in the OT, which the Quran claims to be an extension of, so I assume it wouldn't contradict the teachings of the OT. God directed His OT people to make blood sacrifices to atone for sin (blood representing the seriousness of sin equaling death). If this were not the case, He would have said to pray and do something good in the world, and all will be OK between you and Me.

This is what pointed to Jesus coming in to the world to BE the perfect, ultimate sacrifice.

God deeply WANTS to forgive you, but you must first admit 1) you sin; 2) you are powerless to not sin; 3) because of this, your sacrifices of prayers and/or good deeds are insufficient to meet God's standard of moral perfection; 4) God Himself has provided a way for both His justice to be carried out (consequences for sin) and for you to be completely forgiven; 5) God put those consequences on His perfect Son, Jesus Christ who paid for it in full; 6) Jesus, out of His and the Father's great love for YOU, Their child whom They adore (despite your tendency to go your own way) now "gifts" to you His sinless righteousness.

It's literally that easy, but definitely NOT simple. Salvation is a free gift from God, given only through His Son, Jesus Christ, the perfect lamb sacrificed for ALL the sins of the world -- great and small, heinous and mundane, yours and mine. I'm not sure why that offends anyone, it is a beautiful concept, full of mystery and wonder. That the God of the Universe could devise such a perfect solution to the sin problem infecting every human being...and make it available not just to a select few, but to EVERY ONE of his precious children whom He loves and does not want to see perish, is astounding. It costs me nothing but understanding of my state of continual sinfulness and belief that Jesus alone is worthy to pay for it....but it cost Jesus and God the Father EVERYTHING to provide it to me.

Only Satan could corrupt the masses into the prideful thinking that this is too simple...couldn't be true...we don't need that....there must be another way or ways.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Some of us have family commitments. I answer responses that I believe I am able to answer that particular day.

You have been given multiple explanations and every time you dismiss them via using your pseudo-Islam mystic worldview. Islam was formed 6 centuries after Jesus walked the earth. Your version has been rejected by the serious orthodox Muslims quite a few times and you don't even listen to them.


I will answer that ridiculous claim RE Paul not saying Jesus was via apologetics links. I know you won't read them but serious readers might.

https://carm.org/did-paul-think-jesus-was-god
https://www.answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/moreproof_paulinechristology.html

From Book of Colossians alone - written by apostle Paul - you deliberately misquoted yesterday:

1: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God [contradicting Islam's false teaching that Jesus is a mere prophet], the firstborn of every creature:

1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell [of the father's godhood];

2:9 For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily [not mere prophet]

Like I said above - we all know you will concoct a series of excuses to explain away witness/es' writings as usual. That is part of your faith - believe anything BUT the bible.

and not a single part of wqhat you quoted contradicts my belief.
Because GOD is IMMANENT in ALL things.


perhaps your theology is saw one dimensional you are trying to project that into my islam. Bt islam is a far more developed religion.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

So, I have been lurking here on this board...not new to VC, but new to the forums. This topic captured my curiosity. Total disclaimer: I have never read the Qur'an, so I cannot comment on anything other than what a Muslim might share. Second, I am not interested in debating whose religion is greater, or who among us is more "educated", so I will never comment with an air of superiority, or attempt to "win" the argument. In fact, I have no need to argue at all (I have a son who fills that role quite nicely, lol). I am however, interested in asking/answering questions and speaking to one anther with respect and kindness, not sarcasm and ridicule. Jesus taught that we are to speak the Truth in LOVE...

Haich, above ^^ you said that after Jesus' death, people took him as a god (small g, since you are stating He actually wasn't). The Bible teaches, and other external documents (outside the Bible) witness that Jesus resurrected from the dead after 3 days...which is exactly what He told His followers would happen. Many eyewitness accounts of this. THAT is why "people took him as (G)od", because, obviously only God could raise Himself from the dead. Whether you agree or not, it's historically documented, and THAT'S the only reason the disciples came to believe that Jesus was God...not because it was some sort of popular notion. In fact it was VERY UNpopular, and could get you killed - and actually did, many of the apostles died martyrs' deaths. Keep in mind, the disciples themselves were all pretty much unbelieving that Jesus was God until after His resurrection (hard to argue with that, lol). Even though He Himself taught them that He and the Father were one and the same, they just couldn't grasp it until the final proof (Christ, resurrected) was right there in front of them. Also, the Apostle Paul actually spent half his adult life as a Jewish Sadducee - hunting, persecuting and killing Christians before he met the resurrected Jesus on the road to Damascus and was converted to belief. In fact, he actually left behind a life of power, riches, and prestige to preach the Gospel of Christ to the ends of the earth, which was, again, a VERY DANGEROUS thing to do, and got him thrown in prison dozens of times. Hardly a guy who had any reason to "distort" God's message.

The New Testament books were not compiled by "anonymous men", their authors are well-known and documented. Paul wrote 3/4 of the NT. The interesting thing about your "multiple authors" comment is that even though all 66 books in the Bible were written over the course of thousands of years by 40 different men - from shepherds to kings - and in different languages, no book contradicts the other; the running narrative stays consistent. Think about that. How could this be, other than supernatural inspiration? Which is even more interesting, because by your own depiction, the Quran "builds" on the Bible, yet gives a totally different message, thus demonstrating how hard it would have been for all 40 authors to write separate books about God which are in complete agreement with each other.

Old Testament prophets WERE treated with contempt by the people of their day - because they preached an unpopular message of repentance and obedience to God (kind of like today, lol). But of course, today the books of the prophets included in the OT are certainly venerated by all Bible-reading Christians as important revelations as to God's love, mercy and long suffering with people who constantly turn their backs on Him.

Well said, God Bless you, and welcome to the forums.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Claire thinks angels in the bible as faeries in a field of daffodils.
She thinks Genesis 1 is chronological, where God made the stars on the 4th day but made the earth and night and day on earlier days.
She thinks divine revelation in the bible was recorded and in front of witnesses.....
doesnt even know who authored the 4 gospels.


this is why when Jesus returns he is going to disassociate with you. no one has a right to be this stupid.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Matt 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

To you, is this from the lying pen of the scribes? If not, what exactly did Christ mean, keeping in mind that only God is omnipresent and this obviously predates Nicene? Because if i said the exact same thing, i'd be called out as a lunatic simply because i'm incapable of the claim i'm making.

Sorry I missed this. You need to keep up...
The SON is the LOGOS/IMAGE of God.
The Son is as ive stated many times, according to my understanding, the UNIVERSAL consciousness.
it incarnated in Jesus.

omnipotent no, since it has no animating power on it's own afford
the logos is like a prism that by itself is transparent, but the light that it reflects reveals aspects of God.
but that's a long topic, i won't delve deeper.

 

[AspiringSoul]

accord*
sorry for the typos, it autocorrects

 

[AspiringSoul]

@JoChris you quoted the part about Jesus as the Image of God.
And said it is proof Jesus is more than aere prophet.
Are you even aware of the basic reality that the Qur'an also calls Jesus the Word of Allah?
Many Sufis have actually historically delved deeper in this topic. In Arabic "The Word" is called the KALAM and in Greek the Logos..
And the "image" is written in Genesis 1.
Philo the Jewish Hellenised philosopher was the one who introduced the Greek concept of logos into the Jewish context by saying the LOGOS is also the image of God and the Son of God.
Ie
Image, son, word were just different ways of describing the universal consciousness.

As for saying that Muslims don't agree with me. What part? Because Jesus is certainly called the Word of Allah in the Qur'an.
And there certainly is a very large body of work in Islamic history on the matter of the KALAM and its nature.

Islam is far far bigger in terms of body of work and content than your religion..and some.of is are blessed to know more than others.
It doesn't make me a good person or anything
..only that I take more of an interest in this stuff.

 

[JoChris]

@JoChris you quoted the part about Jesus as the Image of God.
And said it is proof Jesus is more than aere prophet.
Are you even aware of the basic reality that the Qur'an also calls Jesus the Word of Allah?
Many Sufis have actually historically delved deeper in this topic. In Arabic "The Word" is called the KALAM and in Greek the Logos..
And the "image" is written in Genesis 1.
Philo the Jewish Hellenised philosopher was the one who introduced the Greek concept of logos into the Jewish context by saying the LOGOS is also the image of God and the Son of God.
Ie
Image, son, word were just different ways of describing the universal consciousness.

As for saying that Muslims don't agree with me. What part? Because Jesus is certainly called the Word of Allah in the Qur'an.
And there certainly is a very large body of work in Islamic history on the matter of the KALAM and its nature.

Islam is far far bigger in terms of body of work and content than your religion..and some.of is are blessed to know more than others.
It doesn't make me a good person or anything
..only that I take more of an interest in this stuff.

There are plenty of religions/ cults who say different stuff about Jesus. If they contradict the bible they are false religions. Simple. It doesn't matter how much they may agree on the surface with Christianity - one lie makes the religious founder a liar.

The apostles were eyewitnesses of Jesus. Muhammad was born in 6th century AD, half a millennium later. Therefore if he contradicts the bible he either didn't know what he was talking about, he was a plain liar, or he was extremely spiritually deceived by Satan/ demons (masquerading as an angel).

Many different lies, only one Truth. Seek the Truth always and then stick with it.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

You haven't read anything. If nothing was written down how did Abu Bakr compile the first Quran? No one was with Moses(pbuh) when he received the Torah does that mean almost everything in the OT is hearsay. Also, you should be last person talking about hearsay considering no one even knows who the real authors of the NT are with the exception of Paul.

You know how angels treat people now? Show me how angels treat people?

Also no intelligent Christian ever claims that the Quran was authored by the devil because a house divided against itself cannot stand but yet Islam is standing and still going strong, a lot stronger than Christianity that's for sure. If you read the Quran you would know that it specifically tells us that the devil is our enemy and that we should avoid him and all the sins he offers.

Of course we know who wrote the Bible. I already listed it earlier in the thread.

And any saved, Bible-believing Christian can read the Quran and know it is NOT the Word of God. It is not a matter of “intelligence”, it is purely spiritual, and has to do with knowing the voice of God.

Upon salvation, which occurs the minute one believes on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the spirit of the saved is indwelled with the Holy Spirit of God, and the saved know Him & He knows us who are saved:

John 10:
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[Haich]

To all these newbies trying to engage with me, sorry but I'm not interested. I have had about 4 newbies quote my posts and try to troll me and every poster says 'I joined this site when i read this comment I've been a lurker for a while...'.

You're clearly trolls and I'm not interested so please refrain from quoting my posts.

Thanks

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Claire thinks angels in the bible as faeries in a field of daffodils.
She thinks Genesis 1 is chronological, where God made the stars on the 4th day but made the earth and night and day on earlier days.
She thinks divine revelation in the bible was recorded and in front of witnesses.....
doesnt even know who authored the 4 gospels.


this is why when Jesus returns he is going to disassociate with you. no one has a right to be this stupid.

Interesting....I have not insulted you, yet you slander....you call me “stupid”, and make false assumptions of what my beliefs are, based solely upon your own misunderstanding.


Where is the “peace” in Islam, Aspiring, because I am certainly not seeing it in you?

You say Jesus is going to “disassociate” with me when He returns?

If you really believe that, you will be quite disappointed, because —-I am ALREADY saved. Sealed unto the day of Redemption, praise be to God through our Savior Christ Jesus.

 

[Daciple]

. You are ready to believe in something you do not understand, that you can not explain but pass it off as faith when that is not what faith means.

No, we understand it, it is you who refuses to understand, its really not hard to understand, I have watched dozens and been apart of dozens of conversations where every aspect of Christianity has been thoroughly explained to every single Muslim that has ever existed on this board and still all of you put on blinders and act as tho whatever explanation isnt good enough. Not only that but these points have also been explained in laymans terms, in fact watered down that even children could grasp it, yet still somehow Muslims can not for the life of them "comprehend" what is told to them.

Let us be truly honest, the facts are each one of you are not this stupid, I actually value all of your intelligence's higher than the facade you all put on in not grasping or understanding the ideologies presented to you. In other words I think all of you are fully capable and completely understand every point ever argued concerning Christianity, however, in your concrete refusal to accept such ideologies all of you feint to "not understand" what has been said.Instead of being honest and saying yeah that makes total sense, I can see what your Scriptures say and how you come to that conclusion, but I just dont agree with you you act like what is being said is something you are not able to comprehend.

So you can believe that a supposedly illiterate man can write the entire text you hold as holy? You can believe that Mary became pregnant as a virgin? You can supposedly and rationally comprehend this fully, but to believe that God became a man is way beyond any type of comprehension for you?

Women being found pregnant normal and able to comprehend, God choosing to become a man, totally impossible to comprehend?

Nonsense, just as one can not LOGICALLY and FULLY understand and totally comprehend exactly how it is that Mary gave birth to Jesus but was a Virgin, but still 100% believe and accept such a thing can happen (by Faith) one too can believe that God became a Man, even if they can not fully understand exactly how He did it (its called Faith). The same principal is applied in both sitituations, the text we individually deem Holy (you the Quran me the Bible) tells us that somehow Mary who was a virgin gave Birth to Jesus, we accept this by FAITH (because it logically doesnt make sense but we can understand it) and the Bible tells us implicitly that God became a Man (on more than one occasion) and that Jesus is God incarnate. Therefore applying the same principal of FAITH we accept what our Bible tells us, just as you by FAITH accept what the Quran says about Mary.

Also your definition of Faith isnt truly Faith, the Word of God defines it exactly:

Hebrews 11:11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

In other words Faith is accepting something as real and true, even tho you have not seen them yet, by Faith I accept Jesus as God who died on the Cross for my Sins, even tho I didnt actually see it with my own eyes. You can read the rest of that Chapter for more examples of Faith, however I know even if you feint not to understand it, that you actually get everything I am saying. Just like I know you and every Muslim ever to be on this board fully comprehend the Incarnation...

 

[AspiringSoul]

Interesting....I have not insulted you, yet you slander....you call me “stupid”, and make false assumptions of what my beliefs are, based solely upon your own misunderstanding.


Where is the “peace” in Islam, Aspiring, because I am certainly not seeing it in you?

You say Jesus is going to “disassociate” with me when He returns?

If you really believe that, you will be quite disappointed, because —-I am ALREADY saved. Sealed unto the day of Redemption, praise be to God through our Savior Christ Jesus.

Haha don't give me none of that shit about "peace"
You attacked my religion and effectively said it was satanic...with the dumbest arguments.

Seriously how old are you? You never noticed the book of Daniel? You are claiming to have read the Quan yet don't even know that Daniel the prophet was trembling with fear, pale skinned and full of self doubt when he saw Gabriel appear to him?

It is embarrassing that you only ever had the Bible and you didn't even know this.

Surely before you attacked Islam you should have done your research.
Faux Christianity at its finest.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Interesting....I have not insulted you, yet you slander....you call me “stupid”, and make false assumptions of what my beliefs are, based solely upon your own misunderstanding.


Where is the “peace” in Islam, Aspiring, because I am certainly not seeing it in you?

You say Jesus is going to “disassociate” with me when He returns?

If you really believe that, you will be quite disappointed, because —-I am ALREADY saved. Sealed unto the day of Redemption, praise be to God through our Savior Christ Jesus.

Your logic was that Islam is from the devil.
You then provided criteria ie
Chronological
Linear story telling
And from a nice and soft angel.

Each one is completely contradicted from the bible.
Therefore you have by the logic in your argument attacked your own religion and called it satanic too.

Unless you can accept you were wrong there.