I have read most of the Quran.
You say it’s from God, but How is that possible, since Muslims don’t believe in the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit, nothing was written down as the “revelations” came to Muhammad, nobody else was there to witness what transpired in the cave so it’s all hearsay.
Remember, Muhammad HIMSELF claimed that he was possessed by devils & from the way the incident is described to have happened in the cave, I strongly suspect he was right about the possession.
And I do not believe for a second that the angel Gabriel approached him in the cave.
The behavior of the angel is NOTHING like the way angels have treated true believers at all.
I can easily answer all of this so I really hope you read my reply honestly, i mean i doubt you will but i still will reply.
1)
Muslims don’t believe in the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit,
This is actually false in so many ways you do not even understand.
The problem is as i have argued with many muslims that modern era ignorance led muslims to conclude that the Ruh Al Quddus was the angel Gabriel. This was false and contradicts the hadith and more importantly the Quran.
So here are quotes for you.
(1) Narrated Hassan bin Thabit Al-Ansari: I asked Abu Huraira "By Allah! Tell me the truth whether you heard the Prophet saying, 'O Hassan! Reply on behalf of Allah's Apostle. O Allah! Help him with the holy spirit." Abu Huraira said, "Yes . " (Book #8, Hadith #444)
Whoever satirises the Apostle from amongst you, or praises him and helps it is all the same, And Gabriel, the Apostle of Allah is among us, and the holy spirit who has no match. (Book #031, Hadith #6081)
get this? Gabriel and the holy spirit are not the same at all and here the prophet SAW says the 'holy spirit who has no match' which makes sense given even what Jesus AS said about the Holy Spirit.
(1) We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!
(سورة البقرة, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #87)
(4) Say, the holy spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
(سورة النحل, An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #102)
^^
this actually isnt't a reference to Gabriel AS because his name is not mentioned here at all.
In fact in sufi metaphysics the highest level of the individual soul is connected to the Ruh Al Quddus and is called the Sirr ul Asrar.
BUT i don't expect you to understand this because it is foreign to you.
2)
nothing was written down as the “revelations” came to Muhammad, nobody else was there to witness what transpired in the cave so it’s all hearsay.
actually it was memorised and written down usually right away and the revelation occured in a 23 year period, the cave was where it began.
It was only compiled in a particular order by Usman RA....and he is someone who was one of the closest companions of our prophet SAW and living in his time.
The same absolutely cannot be said about the new testament and yet you consider that to be the Absolute word of God, even though the authors are not even known!!!!!
As for nobody being there to witness, what are you on about? oh do you mean when seeing the angel Gabriel? not all revelation came via Gabriel, much of it was revealed directly from the mouth of prophet SAW who spoke by INSPIRATION.
Is this in any way, contrary to the bible?
well let's go on a trip down memory lane
John 14
5 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
John 16
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”
In the New testament, post Jesus era, there was no text of prophecies EXCEPT the book of Revelation (one of the greatest treasures of prophecy out there i might add). However in the book of Revelation in the beginning chapters, the holy spirit literally speaks by his own as follows
7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
ok let me just simplify this. The holy spirit wasspeaking on his own and the author (John of Patmos) was the witness who wrote it all down later. No problem with that whatsoever, but this is not 'divine inspiration' is it?
Furthermore YOU believe the holy spirit is GOD...here Jesus says
Jesus says
He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears
this does not befit God, but it does befit a prophet who speaks by inspiration!!
(4) Say, the holy spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
(سورة النحل, An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #102)
this IS divine inspiration through a man. No one, none of the early christians spoke by divine inspiration in THIS manner.
Be more specific
he will guide you into all the truth.
he will tell you what is yet to come.
8 When he comes, he will convict the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
Why did Jesus keep referring to it as the 'spirit of TRUTH'?
The apostles were only extending the message of Jesus. They weren't preaching anything new.
of course, even John of Patmos in the final text of the bible......fell down to worship an ANGEL!!!
So much for grand truth. Such was the poor theology of christianity and judaism that this was the state of even John of Patmos.
The TRUTH is islam, the ONENESS OF ALLAH. Convicting the world of sin and judgement, only islam did that in the manner in which it went on the offensive against every pagan/polythiest religion in it's sights.
about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
but isn't Jesus living inside you?
hence islam came to fulfill this..and it was the holy spirit who brought islam when christianity failed.
christianity spread as far as it did for 2 reasons
-it became the state religion of ROME
-it spread through colonialism (end times Rome, see Daniel 2)
so christianity didnt do much 'convicting'
it didnt need to when it had the guns of the BEAST doing it's fighting for it.
3)
Remember, Muhammad HIMSELF claimed that he was possessed by devils & from the way the incident is described to have happened in the cave, I strongly suspect he was right about the possession.
And I do not believe for a second that the angel Gabriel approached him in the cave.
The behavior of the angel is NOTHING like the way angels have treated true believers at all.
claire, i wont let a single lie/half truth slip by here.
For one, here is the full hadith
Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read. The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones." Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, "Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!" Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" Allah's Apostle described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, "This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they drive me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while. Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari while talking about the period of pause in revelation reporting the speech of the Prophet "While I was walking, all of a sudden I heard a voice from the sky. I looked up and saw the same angel who had visited me at the cave of Hira' sitting on a chair between the sky and the earth. I got afraid of him and came back home and said, 'Wrap me (in blankets).' And then Allah revealed the following Holy Verses (of Quran): 'O you (i.e. Muhammad)! wrapped up in garments!' Arise and warn (the people against Allah's Punishment),... up to 'and desert the idols.' (74.1-5) After this the revelation started coming strongly, frequently and regularly."
your suggestion is far off with some lies inbetween. Since the story as above clearly suggests the opposite ie that he FEARED evil and also has some self-doubt but he was reasurred by strong arguments in his favour.
but let's go deeper
"The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more
so this means he was a demon? right.
side note
of course i could argue that Jesus said satans kingdom is not divided etc etc..the Quran itself condemns satan all over. I don't even need to quote the verses, by now if you had read the Quran you would know. If you were honest you would bring that to light by your own conscience ie you would question 'if Mohammad was evil and this was a demonic text, why is it condemjing the devil and how does that match up with what Jesus said?'
For example even if you look at the Mormon sect/religion, the founder Joseph Smith literally claimed to communicate with an angel called moroni that is never mentioned in the bible, ever..and it claimed to have been a man in it's past life!!! So it is easy to spot it because it is a different entity claiming to be an angel. I have yet to see any false religion claiming it has come from an angel that is Gabriel for example.
"satan disguises himself as an angel of light" perhaps, but what does said 'angel' claim? does it condemn satan?
in the bible
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_wrestling_with_the_angel
violence=demonic right?
Luke 1
The angel replied, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news. But now, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their time, you will become mute, unable to speak, until the day these things occur.”
Daniel 8
16 And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.”
17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,” he said to me, “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.”
18 While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground.
27 I, Daniel, was worn out. I lay exhausted for several days. Then I got up and went about the king’s business. I was appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding.
Daniel 10
7 I, Daniel, was the only one who saw the vision; those who were with me did not see it, but such terror overwhelmed them that they fled and hid themselves. 8 So I was left alone, gazing at this great vision; I had no strength left, my face turned deathly pale and I was helpless. 9 Then I heard him speaking, and as I listened to him, I fell into a deep sleep, my face to the ground.
10 A hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees.
reminds me
(4) 'Ubida b. Samit reported that when wahi (inspiration) descended upon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), he felt a burden on that account and the colour of his face underwent a change. (Book #030, Hadith #5766)
are you willing to accept you were wrong? doubt it.
remember Daniel came from a strong theological background as a jew.
Mohammad, had no such knowledge before, but the fact he questioned his first experience shows his integrity. You don't see that with people like joseph smith.
self-doubt is a sign of honesty.
Daniel had scarier experiences clearly.
are caves evil places?
1 Kings 19:9
There he went into a cave and spent the night. [ The Lord Appears to Elijah ] And the word of the Lord came to him: “What are you doing here, Elijah?”
nope, not even close. Caves are places of solitude.
actually going back to angels
http://www.daily-bible-study-tips.com/Angels/Angels-Say-Fear-Not.htm
On the other hand, maybe there’s a reason angels have to say, “Fear not!”
clearly the first reaction from the true prophets and people of God is FEAR.
the fact that you made your arguments despite all the above is proof you are either outright evil and a liar OR that you are incredibly stupid and still a liar.
It’s humbling to be loved by a God I’m not worthy of, I’m sorry you can’t see that.
