10 Reasons Why Jesus Is Not God!

Etagloc

Superstar
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5,291
That's my problem, so i almost do nothing and i get forgiven, i don't work for it, it just sounds too easy.. - Too good to be true
I'm rewatching that video (the one in my above post)- I am telling you @peopleingeneral, whatever your religious beliefs are: WATCH. THAT. VIDEO. That video is so on point and sums up exactly what is going on with Christianity these days.

And it is what you say, yiksmes. "Salvation is by faith"- forget about actually having to actually do good deeds, forget about actually having to be a decent person, forget about having to actually do anything or having to earn your salvation- I get that might sound great to Zionists and 500 years of generations of colonialist psychopaths..... but I am not a colonialist psychopath.... I have no problem with not committing aggression against native populations minding their own business.... people hate Palestinian, Native Americans, etc., demonize all types of oppressed people and then say "everyone is the same"..... no everyone is not the same... that is just people projecting that everyone is that kind of psychopathic...... regular, normal healthy human beings are capable of co-existing peacefully with others and are not defenders of colonialism..... a colonialist is by definition not a normal human being and is seriously warped......

just to give you an example....... if you read The Black Jacobins- it actually describes European slave-traders writing songs of praise to Jesus (may peace be upon him) while simultaneously stuffing chained Africans into slave-ships..... no guilt at all.... they are doing horrible, unspeakable crimes against innocent people while simultaneously writing praise songs to Jesus (may peace be upon him)......... people, read The Black Jacobins for yourself.... it's in there..... that is just historical fact..... and not even surprising...... and Protestant theology exactly opens the door for that sort of thing.... "everyone is evil..... you don't need to actually be a decent person".... so you can be a psychopath committing genocide against entire races of people, stuffing innocent women into slave-ships..... doing all sort of barbarism.... murdering Palestinians.... and yet according to Protestant theology you will still to heaven..... "salvation is by faith, not by works"...... and they repeat that, like it's some beautiful, profound thing instead of something utterly weird, bizarre and terrifying...... suppose that poor victim follows their native beliefs..... so... from the perspective of Protestant theology..... the psychopath (who is quite possibly a rapist) goes to heaven and the victim goes to hell..... Islam actually stands up from justice.... according to Islam, we are weighed by our deeds.... and so, from an Islamic perspective.... that psychopath is almost definitely going to hell.... whereas the innocent victim will receive justice....

maybe certain people (COUGHCOUGHzionistsCOUGHCOUGH) have a vested interest in believing that God is not on the side of justice......

but God is certainly on the side of justice......

and so from the standpoint of justice, reason and actually being practical and actually getting results.... Islam wins on all these fronts.... it's not even close...

Islam doesn't tell us "all you have to do is believe and be saved".... belief is a part of it..... but we actually have to get up and pray in the morning........

one side is telling us- do the work..... we want to lose weight- actually do the diet and exercise......

the other side is telling us.... losing weight is not by work- diet and exercise are worthless..... take this MAGIC PILL.......

I get that magic pills are greatly appealing for many......

but I think the better route is to actually do the work, actually follow diet and exercise.... actually earn one's salvation.... I want to earn my salvation..... someone who thinks it is liberating to not have to actually earn their salvation..... that belief I think is slightly terrifying
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
Islam is not above rolling up its sleeves and actually addressing the issues. Islam will actually get results. I don't see any other thing that would actually get results. I don't believe in an ethic of "be a passive victim and allow yourself to be victimized," "don't actually do anything".... Islam will actually get results and will actually address the moral degeneracy being pushed on those of us living in the West. The more Islam, the better. The only reason people are opposed to it is due to cultural heritage. But the West doesn't care about its own cultural heritage. The West happily has allowed its culture to be brought into the gutter. It can't get mad when a solution then has to be brought from outside.
Remember Babylon destroying Jerusalem and taking the Jews captive because of all their sins ?

That did not make Babylon the true religion but God used Babylon to punish His own more or less morally degenerate people.

This is where Islam finds itself today. Used by God to punish legalised lawlessness like abortion same sex marriage etc etc.
 
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
2,342
The Everlasting/ Eternal remains.
Agreed.

Starting at the end and working backward seems counterproductive. :/ What is your understanding of Christianity i.e. why Jesus came or incarnated in the first place... that might help on the peace/sword thing.
I thought we were starting at the beginning and going forward by looking at Isaiah 9:7 on its own and comparing it to what Jesus said later?

But my understanding of christianity was that Jesus came to die for everybody sins while correcting/reforming the way of life of the Jews. I dont necessarily think this is in agreement with what the OT but thats what I've always took away from Christianity
 

Serveto

Star
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
1,043
Remember Babylon destroying Jerusalem and taking the Jews captive because of all their sins ?

That did not make Babylon the true religion but God used Babylon to punish His own more or less morally degenerate people.

This is where Islam finds itself today. Used by God to punish legalised lawlessness like abortion same sex marriage etc etc.
I respectfully disagree. A significant difference between Babylon and Ishmael is that Ishmael, even according to your own books, was promised a "great nation." However one interprets that, even if only as that Ishmael and his sons would have a high sperm-count and repopulate and multiply, it can also be a reference to the Islamic "ummah," or nation we see before us. As I see it, Ishmael, though sent with his mother into the wilderness of Paran, has a God-promised, not necessarily villainous, role to play, and, what is more, he has a "great nation," complain though his many critics may.
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
I respectfully disagree. A significant difference between Babylon and Ishmael is that Ishmael, even according to your own books, was promised a "great nation." However one interprets that, even if only as that Ishmael and his sons would have a high sperm-count and repopulate and multiply, it can also be a reference to the Islamic "ummah," or nation we see before us. As I see it, Ishmael, though sent with his mother into the wilderness of Paran, has a God-promised, not necessarily villainous, role to play, and, what is more, he has a "great nation," complain though his many critics may.
A great warlike community indeed just as said in the Bible.

But the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob known in the Bible is not the same god of Muhammad known in the Quran.
 

Serveto

Star
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
1,043
A great warlike community indeed just as said in the Bible.
A sort of Christianity with testicles left in tact :cool:. At least, unlike Christians, when Muslims go to war, they don't have to ignore or otherwise suspend the teachings of their prophet.


TokiEl said:
But the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob known in the Bible is not the same god of Muhammad known in the Quran.
"The Nazarenes [Christians] are idolaters. The first day of the week is their festival. Hence it is forbidden in Palestine to have commercial intercourse with them on the fifth and sixth day ...

The Ishmaelites [Muslims] are not considered pagan in any sense. No trace of paganism is left in their speech and in their hearts. They confess the Unity of God in its strict and unconditional meaning ..."
Moses Maimonides (p. 319)
 
Last edited:

rainerann

Star
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
4,550
Slightly off-topic random thought:

The West needs Islam. The West can complain and complain but.... seriously, we are immersed in filth and degeneracy.

Does anyone actually have any ideas on how to actually do anything about it?

Secular ideologies will further the degeneracy.

Therefore, the solution has to be religious. New Age garbage promotes occultism and demonic possesion. And also degeneracy.

Christianity is like "well... ummm... you know..... it's morally superior to sit back and be a passive victim"

and so Christians (besides rare exceptions like Mrs. Rosseau) are not even pretending to be concerned with actually doing anything....

Islam is not above rolling up its sleeves and actually addressing the issues. Islam will actually get results. I don't see any other thing that would actually get results. I don't believe in an ethic of "be a passive victim and allow yourself to be victimized," "don't actually do anything".... Islam will actually get results and will actually address the moral degeneracy being pushed on those of us living in the West. The more Islam, the better. The only reason people are opposed to it is due to cultural heritage. But the West doesn't care about its own cultural heritage. The West happily has allowed its culture to be brought into the gutter. It can't get mad when a solution then has to be brought from outside.

Plus, all this does is further confirm that Islam is the actual true religion. I don't think being a passive victim=piety. I think piety demands actually addressing real-world issues and not sitting on a fence. So Islam is good. Since Christianity has embraced an ethic of being good Christian=being powerless... it has abdicated responsiblity. Since Christianity has embraced not stepping up to the plate as an ethic (except when it comes to promoting colonialism and imperialism)- someone has to take responsibility and step up to the plate. Islam should be that "someone". The kids deserve a future. Someone has to actually step up to the plate and defend their interests. Since Christianity isn't willing to do it and secularism just further promotes degeneracy- Islam is needed. People should be applauding Islam and loving Islam. Islam represents hope for an actual future for people.

People can try to debunk this thread's OP's video- however, I think it is actually the "The Bible Says Jesus is Not God".... I think that thread presents the strongest evidence I've seen thus far...... I thought that video was slightly stronger than the one here, although the one here is strong as well. In any case, if people have to go after the slightly weaker video rather than the stronger video- this just further demonstrates that Islam is intellectually superior. Intellectually superior and actually capable of getting results. So... I think it's undeniable that Islam is the one that is actually true. And is actually practical. Today's Christianity doesn't even care about being practical. I think this is why the Christian church is so feminized these days... honestly, when I think of the Christian church, I think of overweight women whose minds are off in la-la land and whose theology is based on emotions and who don't actually follow any concrete rules.

I am merely saying my thoughts on Christianity- I seriously mean nothing against Christians. But I know Christianity and these are just my thoughts. People can criticize Islam for being founded by a man of bravery all they want. To me they sound like liberals terrified of guns and who don't want to accept that struggle and conflict is part of life.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/24/church-of-sweden-to-stop-referring-to-god-as-he-or-lord
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Hate-Going-Church/dp/078523215X
http://thefrontporch.org/2016/04/three-reasons-men-dont-go-to-church/
http://www1.cbn.com/churchandministry/why-men-hate-church

I could go on and on.....

honestly I seriously agree with this guy's assessment....

For the sake of argument, assuming that the west needed to adopt a singular spiritual system in order to improve conditions, if I had to choose between Hinduism or Islam as viable alternatives, I would choose Hinduism every day of the week. People in India have a long-standing history and culture that does not seek to conquer, provoke war, or create oppression. They have a long history of showing respect towards women without having to seek revolution. Hindu people are gentle, pleasant and more often than not, non-aggressive. They place high value on education, family, and taking care of the elderly. Everything that a society needs to be successful. It is no wonder that they have had such long-standing success as a culture.

The history of their culture is a testament to what we should do to create longevity. Islam does not in any way create a viable solution when you consider that alternatives like Hinduism exist. Islam is an oppressive tyrannical system and the people of India have my respect for retaining their culture in the face of Islam attempting to conquer and convert their country to become Islamic. What a great loss this would have been to the world.
 

rainerann

Star
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
4,550
I think you might be here somewhat disregarding the especially militant parts of Hindusim, the history of its warrior caste, but, in a way, I second your vote. For experimental purposes, I would be done with the Near Eastern/Semitic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) for awhile. On the other hand, there are plenty of scholars who trace Abraham, or Ibrahim, and not just in an etymological sense, to "a Brahmin," or a representative of the Brahminical caste of India, so maybe that is what, with significant distortions, we have, a sort of export version of Hinduism.
Well, yes I am. I am also ignoring the negatives created by the class system, which I would otherwise mention as well because from a social perspective, the longevity of Hinduism is fascinating to consider. It is possible that Abraham did come from something that is derived from the Brahminical caste of India because we are considering a point of origin when we consider Hinduism that would include the patriarch Abraham. What we need as a society today is make some connection to a point of origin because it is when nations grow too big for their own good that they fall victim to pride, and it is pride that creates the downfall of several empires throughout history. Maybe it is this connection to a point of origin that also contributes to the longevity of a religion like Hinduism.

Zoroastrians are fascinating to me as well for some of the same reasons and it is interesting that I have seen some reports say that Iran is experiencing something of a revival for Zoroastrianism. I would imagine that this also has something to do with identifying some point of origin that demonstrates success the way these two faiths have. They also have a simplicity that is appealing to me.

I would also like to include my opinion that what the world needs right now is judgment and not the forced conversion to a single religion since I am in the process of elaborating on my point. That is what I think we need because otherwise, we will keep arguing amongst ourselves to infinity and beyond. There will be no end without intercession. I believe in spiritual intercession and not man-made intercession as the final solution.
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
A sort of Christianity with testicles left in tact :cool:. At least, unlike Christians, when Muslims go to war, they don't have to ignore or otherwise suspend the teachings of their prophet.



"The Nazarenes [Christians] are idolaters. The first day of the week is their festival. Hence it is forbidden in Palestine to have commercial intercourse with them on the fifth and sixth day ...


The Ishmaelites [Muslims] are not considered pagan in any sense. No trace of paganism is left in their speech and in their hearts. They confess the Unity of God in its strict and unconditional meaning ..."

The Jews did and do not recognise the Messiah whom their own Scriptures speak about and so it would be wise to take their opinions about religious matters with a pinch of salt.

It has been a long time since Christendom went to war to defend against the Muslim conquests.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
Looking at the Hinduism vs Islam question, I would imagine that the Hindu "many truths" approach would go down really well with Millennials who seem to be raised on the concept of "oneness". As a positive to this approach I can see that Hinduism could claim to respect individuality and free will, but closer a look at the teachings appear to suggest that good and evil, you and me and even this and that are dissolved in the "Maya" or illusion of reality (according to Hinduism anyway).

Islam seems to sit at the other pole. Narrow, prescriptive and compulsory, it's submission appears to have more in common with a game I used to play at primary school called "pile on" where a bunch of boys would find some poor victim and lie on top of him so he couldn't move and cried out "I submit!!!"

Christianity appears to me to navigate between these poles, respecting the free will of the individual, agreeing with the separation of Church and state, yet offering a plan of salvation that makes absolute claims about Jesus.
 

Serveto

Star
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
1,043
The Jews did and do not recognise the Messiah whom their own Scriptures speak about and so it would be wise to take their opinions about religious matters with a pinch of salt.
Well, however much I like you, and that I do, yours is only an online opinion, whereas Rambam's (Maimonides') is practically halachic. I left it to him to address your assertion that the God of the Quran is not the God of the Bible and I think he did it quite well indeed. If anything, when it comes to Judaism, Christianity and Islam, it sounds like it's Christianity that is, so to perhaps too glibly speak, odd god out.
TokiEl said:
It has been a long time since Christendom went to war to defend against the Muslim conquests.
That's probably because there is no such thing as Christendom, or at least only skeletal remains. For three centuries, while most of you sat passively by, Free Masons, Rationalists and Deists did a superlative job of replacing your monarchies with pagan, Greco-Roman secular republics and democracies, turning you Christians into a voting bloc, little more effective than a book reading and debating club (thanks former member, LoyaltotheCrown). At least they left you the right to vote (lol). "A, o, way to go Ohio."
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
Well, however much I like you, and that I do, yours is only an online opinion, whereas Rambam's (Maimonides') is practically halachic. I left it to him to address your assertion that the God of the Quran is not the God of the Bible and I think he did it quite well indeed. If anything, when it comes to Judaism, Christianity and Islam, it sounds like it's Christianity that is, so to perhaps too glibly speak, odd god out.


I like you as well and it's actually Scriptural that Jesus is the Messiah or Christ. So that is not a personal opinion. Therefore any and all Jews saying otherwise just prove their incompetence on religious matters.



That's probably because there is no such thing as Christendom, or at least only skeletal remains. For three centuries, while most of you sat passively by, Free Masons, Rationalists and Deists did a superlative job of replacing your monarchies with pagan, Greco-Roman secular republics and democracies, turning you Christians into a voting bloc, little more effective than a book reading and debating club (thanks former member, LoyaltotheCrown). At least they left you the right to vote (lol). "A, o, way to go Ohio."
But the blue bloods are the power behind the scenes. They have reigned for thousands of years and do not just quit no they're still at it pulling the strings of global policy and events. They want one world with much less people controlled by an AI.
 

elsbet

Superstar
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
5,122
Well, however much I like you, and that I do, yours is only an online opinion, whereas Rambam's (Maimonides') is practically halachic. I left it to him to address your assertion that the God of the Quran is not the God of the Bible and I think he did it quite well indeed. If anything, when it comes to Judaism, Christianity and Islam, it sounds like it's Christianity that is, so to perhaps too glibly speak, odd god out.
Rambam, who would not even deign to speak his name, called Mohammed "that Ishmaelite."

" [Ultimately,] all the deeds of Jesus of Nazareth and that Ishmaelite [i.e. Mohammed] who arose after him will only serve to pave the way for the coming of Moshiach and for the improvement of the entire world ..."

No surprise after the backhanded compliment---

"No trace of paganism is left... "

But you should have seen 'em when they got started. *wink wink*

Glib, indeed.. he considered them a lost cause. Granted we are no better, our only hope being our belief in the sanctity of the Torah. Jehovah was always quick to point out the stubbornness of the Jews though. I like your notion, however, of Jehovah being the odd God out-- He really is. He is the EL in Elohim... God of gods. The first and the last.
I absolutely agree with you there. :)
 

elsbet

Superstar
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
5,122
Hey, just to be sure: I never said Rambam converted to Islam. On the contrary, his notorious, hard-hitting Epistle to Yemen puts those upstart, presumptuous Christians and Muslims both in their place (and it's not necessarily a nice place in the so called "world to come"). He has a certain amount of respect for the both of you, but only to the extent that, being a man quite beyond his era, he was able to see (his) God's plan to use impure Christians and Muslims to distribute the Torah, or at least those parts of the Torah that y'all stole from the Jews.:) Ah, Near-Eastern/Semitic religion(s): gotta love 'em.
I understood you-- :) I didn't think he was a convert. Clarity or no, I just thought we could (maybe) agree he's not the best primary source. He's kind of mean. :/
 

elsbet

Superstar
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
5,122
If you are suggesting that I could do better than to quote a Medieval Pharisee as an authority, I suppose I agree. But that is probably only because I retain a vestigial, Christian bias against the sect. Seriously, though, I was quoting Rambam not as my authority, but as an authority, and that on Judaism.
Fair enough. I cross him in Christian exposition-- I know he has clout, in that sense, regarding the ot. It is my own home prejudice (God love the Baptists.. they do leave a mark) that disregards the material and points to a fox in the henhouse.

+1 for medieval Pharisee :)
 

yannick

Veteran
Joined
Mar 6, 2018
Messages
814
If you were God, Being All-Powerful, The Most Perfect, The Over-Perfect, The Undescribable, The One With No Beginning Nor End, would you *abase***

abase

əˈbeɪs/

verb

  1. behave in a way that belittles or degrades (someone).
    "I watched my colleagues abasing themselves before the board of trustees"
  2. synonyms:humble, humiliate, belittle, demean, lower, degrade, disgrace, disparage, debase, cheapen, discredit, mortify, bring low, demote, reduce
yourself to the level of beings that are nothing in comparison to you?

*Remember*** God Always Existed. Can you even comprehend such a Being? Or can you only believe and just accept His Existence without seeking to understand how He Happens to Exist just like that? If we cannot explain His Existence, then how can we suppose that He Reduces His Already Perfect Self to our feeble selves which are subject to impurities, needs, and desires that are oh so shameful when you reflect humbly?
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
If you were God, Being All-Powerful, The Most Perfect, The Over-Perfect, The Undescribable, The One With No Beginning Nor End, would you *abase***

abase

əˈbeɪs/

verb

  1. behave in a way that belittles or degrades (someone).
    "I watched my colleagues abasing themselves before the board of trustees"
  2. synonyms:humble, humiliate, belittle, demean, lower, degrade, disgrace, disparage, debase, cheapen, discredit, mortify, bring low, demote, reduce
yourself to the level of beings that are nothing in comparison to you?

*Remember*** God Always Existed. Can you even comprehend such a Being? Or can you only believe and just accept His Existence without seeking to understand how He Happens to Exist just like that? If we cannot explain His Existence, then how can we suppose that He Reduces His Already Perfect Self to our feeble selves which are subject to impurities, needs, and desires that are oh so shameful when you reflect humbly?
The question goes to the heart of the way you view God.

Is greatness diluted by closeness or humility? Is the father who is President of a country made somehow less because he pretends to be a horse for his little child to ride when he gets home and takes his tie off?

In the same way, is the greatness and holiness of God in his transcendence truly contradicted by Jesus, in his imminence.

I love these words from Hebrews 4

14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
 

vigilante71

Established
Joined
Mar 7, 2018
Messages
149
Looking into it, I found this video from Steven Bancarz quite informative.

With all due respect, that doesn't make any sense to me. I'm just amazed how people do NOT see the similarities between Christianity and Islam and reject the whole possibility of both these religions to be true. I personally enjoy reading both OT, NT, and Quran and I'm always amazed that reading and considering all these three together, regardless of differences we find, helps to understand the other ones better. I understand there are profound differences, but I just can't accept that the God of Christianity or the God of Jews is not the same God of Islam. How can people focus on specific verses and actions and not see the whole perspective is just beyond me. I'm not saying we have to ignore the differences, but I just don't draw a line as soon as I see some specific contrasts. I did not have a chance to read all the OT, NT or Quran yet, and I could possibly wrong, but the more I try, the more I see the kinship amongst these beliefs.
 
Top